The principle is not even close to the same

Mar 31, 2015
11:30:44am

Linescratcher

Bishops are not prosecutors, and should they be held to the same standards of ethical conduct as prosecutors. And prosecutors are not Bishops, as they should not rely on promptings of the Spirit to render a verdict as a judge in Zion.

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Linescratcher

Bio page: Linescratcher
Joined: Dec 21, 2010
Last login: Jun 22, 2021
Total posts: 15,086 (4,281 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

BYU article on Daily Beast and Yahoo, BYU's accreditation is being challenged

JOPE

3/31/15 10:27am

This probably isn't a popular opinion on here but I think the academic and the

kudzucoug

3/31/15 10:29am

Was that not the way it was under President Holland?

Busiturtle

3/31/15 10:30am

J. Golden Kimball, an apostle, would not have been able to live the honor code.

coldcoug

3/31/15 10:42am

What did he do which was against the HC

RC Vikings

3/31/15 11:19am

"Use clean language". That wasn't his style.

coldcoug

3/31/15 11:49am

As I remember it, Golden wasn't an apostle, he was a 70. And

westcoastcoug

3/31/15 1:07pm

But, I'm not a big fan of the Honor Code office getting any more power

SoCalCoug

3/31/15 10:31am

this is a good point

JOPE

3/31/15 10:33am

Agreed - overall I think giving MORE power to the bishops would be a good thing.

Oceanographer

3/31/15 12:59pm

I think the Honor Code office should have only 2 responsibilities:

SoCalCoug

3/31/15 1:27pm

i know a kid the home bishop didn't really like, the kid was literally 6 hours

johnnycarson

3/31/15 10:32am

I agree that changes need to be made

donnerstag

3/31/15 10:44am

The biggest problem with this, I think, is that it dissuades students who may be

Scratch

3/31/15 10:44am

I agree completely

JOPE

3/31/15 10:53am

Having met with Bishops in a BYU Stake...I feel this idea is incorrect

MoveTheChains

3/31/15 11:07am

But those are BYU Bishops...

coldcoug

3/31/15 11:15am

Even if that's the bishops' perspective,

Scratch

3/31/15 11:15am

Interesting, because my friend's dad who is a bishop at BYU

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:47am

Gotta give a Ute an Amen here. They should be separate processes, and yet they

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:46am

Id be a fan of after accumulating so many credits they let you stay but it have

Flyingdolphin

3/31/15 10:45am

One of my sisters left the church pretty much the day after she graduated from

PharmD

3/31/15 10:48am

your last sentence is telling...

kotacoug

3/31/15 10:51am

Yeah - I don't see her ever coming back, but you never know.

PharmD

3/31/15 10:52am

Who forced her to turn them in? I'm sorry, I don't believe her story. I hear

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:05pm

Her bishop asked to see her according to my sister. Who knows? It's her story,

PharmD

3/31/15 1:11pm

My brother was put on probation when the school found out his

westcoastcoug

3/31/15 4:34pm

Bishops have no more power than the local prosecutors to expel students

byujag

3/31/15 10:57am

I think the issue is that you can't get arrested for saying you don't believe

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 11:00am

the subject matter is different but the principle is the same

byujag

3/31/15 11:04am

No, you're thinking like a legal prosecutor, not a civil rights advocate. The

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 11:14am

The principle is not even close to the same

Linescratcher

3/31/15 11:30am

not sure you understood what principle I was talking about

byujag

3/31/15 11:50am

RE: not sure you understood what principle I was talking about

Linescratcher

3/31/15 12:24pm

Two different issues-- the ecclesitaical endorsement is the Bishop directly

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:51am

This is a good point. I never had any bad Bishops and I had one for almost

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 10:58am

This should be an easy decision for BYU. If a student loses their faith and no

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 10:59am

the problem is you then have a possible wolf in among the sheep

byujag

3/31/15 11:07am

If a student body of 30,000 of our best and brightest can't withstand a handful

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 11:16am

BYU allows students of other faiths to attend - are they wolves in sheep's

couldge

3/31/15 11:27am

not the same thing

byujag

3/31/15 11:32am

I think the negative image the rule creates FAR outweighs any positives.

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 11:45am

Not really. Two points: from a member of the BOT, the reason the church

Monomachos

3/31/15 12:27pm

They earned their spot over competing Latter-day Saints. Why does a crisis of

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 12:50pm

If "They earned their spot over competing Latter-day Saints" they also

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:27pm

There are a number of nonmember, HC-abiding students at BYU.

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:08pm

True, but as Jenkins pointed out, they are not asked to make the

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:22pm

Other than Church callings, in what other ways are they not as committed?

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:28pm

They committed to being active members of the Church. Period.

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:39pm

So, what if they lose their faith, but still attend church?

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:49pm

Then we are back to square one: it is up to their bishop to determine

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:55pm

I'm fine with that, but how do nonmember students meet that aspect of the HC?

Oceanographer

3/31/15 2:35pm

"Commitment" is a tricky term. What if you came across a person of the Catholic

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 2:29pm

Not the same. The commitment at BYU brings defined responsibilities ang

Monomachos

3/31/15 4:24pm

Or make them get an ecclesiastical endorsement from another church

doubled1981

3/31/15 12:39pm

How did Luke Ashworth remain in school under this approach? IIRC he was not

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:52am

One of the questions of the Honor Code is interesting

MoveTheChains

3/31/15 11:25am

Why? I don't believe it is sinful to be in a female's apartment at 12:01 but

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 11:32am

Sin and the Honor Code are two different things

MoveTheChains

3/31/15 11:56am

I know sin and the honor code are two different things. That is exactly why

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 12:08pm

I have no issue with the Honor Code

MoveTheChains

4/1/15 2:09pm

The variation on leaders is a legitimate issue. One of the stake presidents I

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 11:37am

Variation is an issue in excommunication too.

PharmD

4/1/15 8:00am

Seems odd that an alumni group wants to pull the university's accreditation.

Real Men Wear Blue

3/31/15 11:44am

Luke Ashworth stayed and graduated. There is a disconnect somewhere.

NewMexiCoug

3/31/15 12:43pm

There's no disconnect. BYU made an exception for Luke. I don't know how often

DapperDan

3/31/15 12:45pm

Thanks. To me, an exception to a hard, fast policy is a disconnect,

NewMexiCoug

3/31/15 2:53pm

A different point of view

davevine

4/1/15 7:53am

Yeah I strongly disagree with that.

kudzucoug

4/1/15 7:55am

Wow, terrible idea

TepperCoug

4/1/15 8:14am

<< Deleted >>

davevine

4/1/15 8:17am

You can make your point without putting words in someone else's mouth.

kudzucoug

4/1/15 8:23am

Agreed

davevine

4/1/15 9:11am

I can see where you are coming from but measuring beliefs is a very difficult

kudzucoug

4/1/15 9:41am

I agree with your point that the couple does have responsibility for

Monomachos

4/1/15 2:36pm

If your concern is people billing the church, just charge more

jkccoug

4/1/15 8:06pm

That article is such crap. Apparently the 1st presidency and quorum...

COACHdrn

4/1/15 9:10am

had a friend whose Bishop wouldn't sign his endorsement

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:45am

I fully support the bishops at BYU. If they feel a student doesn't qualify for

IronPotato

4/1/15 4:54pm

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