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Mar 31, 2015
1:49
:35
pm
Oceanographer
So, what if they lose their faith, but still attend church?
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Oceanographer
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Oceanographer
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Oct 19, 2011
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May 10, 2024
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Messages
Author
Time
BYU article on Daily Beast and Yahoo, BYU's accreditation is being challenged
JOPE
3/31/15 10:27am
This probably isn't a popular opinion on here but I think the academic and the
kudzucoug
3/31/15 10:29am
Was that not the way it was under President Holland?
Busiturtle
3/31/15 10:30am
J. Golden Kimball, an apostle, would not have been able to live the honor code.
coldcoug
3/31/15 10:42am
What did he do which was against the HC
RC Vikings
3/31/15 11:19am
"Use clean language". That wasn't his style.
coldcoug
3/31/15 11:49am
As I remember it, Golden wasn't an apostle, he was a 70. And
westcoastcoug
3/31/15 1:07pm
But, I'm not a big fan of the Honor Code office getting any more power
SoCalCoug
3/31/15 10:31am
this is a good point
JOPE
3/31/15 10:33am
Agreed - overall I think giving MORE power to the bishops would be a good thing.
Oceanographer
3/31/15 12:59pm
I think the Honor Code office should have only 2 responsibilities:
SoCalCoug
3/31/15 1:27pm
i know a kid the home bishop didn't really like, the kid was literally 6 hours
johnnycarson
3/31/15 10:32am
I agree that changes need to be made
donnerstag
3/31/15 10:44am
The biggest problem with this, I think, is that it dissuades students who may be
Scratch
3/31/15 10:44am
I agree completely
JOPE
3/31/15 10:53am
Having met with Bishops in a BYU Stake...I feel this idea is incorrect
MoveTheChains
3/31/15 11:07am
But those are BYU Bishops...
coldcoug
3/31/15 11:15am
Even if that's the bishops' perspective,
Scratch
3/31/15 11:15am
Interesting, because my friend's dad who is a bishop at BYU
jkccoug
4/1/15 10:47am
Gotta give a Ute an Amen here. They should be separate processes, and yet they
jkccoug
4/1/15 10:46am
Id be a fan of after accumulating so many credits they let you stay but it have
Flyingdolphin
3/31/15 10:45am
One of my sisters left the church pretty much the day after she graduated from
PharmD
3/31/15 10:48am
your last sentence is telling...
kotacoug
3/31/15 10:51am
Yeah - I don't see her ever coming back, but you never know.
PharmD
3/31/15 10:52am
Who forced her to turn them in? I'm sorry, I don't believe her story. I hear
Oceanographer
3/31/15 1:05pm
Her bishop asked to see her according to my sister. Who knows? It's her story,
PharmD
3/31/15 1:11pm
My brother was put on probation when the school found out his
westcoastcoug
3/31/15 4:34pm
Bishops have no more power than the local prosecutors to expel students
byujag
3/31/15 10:57am
I think the issue is that you can't get arrested for saying you don't believe
Byron McNertney
3/31/15 11:00am
the subject matter is different but the principle is the same
byujag
3/31/15 11:04am
No, you're thinking like a legal prosecutor, not a civil rights advocate. The
Byron McNertney
3/31/15 11:14am
The principle is not even close to the same
Linescratcher
3/31/15 11:30am
not sure you understood what principle I was talking about
byujag
3/31/15 11:50am
RE: not sure you understood what principle I was talking about
Linescratcher
3/31/15 12:24pm
Two different issues-- the ecclesitaical endorsement is the Bishop directly
jkccoug
4/1/15 10:51am
This is a good point. I never had any bad Bishops and I had one for almost
Byron McNertney
3/31/15 10:58am
This should be an easy decision for BYU. If a student loses their faith and no
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 10:59am
the problem is you then have a possible wolf in among the sheep
byujag
3/31/15 11:07am
If a student body of 30,000 of our best and brightest can't withstand a handful
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 11:16am
BYU allows students of other faiths to attend - are they wolves in sheep's
couldge
3/31/15 11:27am
not the same thing
byujag
3/31/15 11:32am
I think the negative image the rule creates FAR outweighs any positives.
Byron McNertney
3/31/15 11:45am
Not really. Two points: from a member of the BOT, the reason the church
Monomachos
3/31/15 12:27pm
They earned their spot over competing Latter-day Saints. Why does a crisis of
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 12:50pm
If "They earned their spot over competing Latter-day Saints" they also
Monomachos
3/31/15 1:27pm
There are a number of nonmember, HC-abiding students at BYU.
Oceanographer
3/31/15 1:08pm
True, but as Jenkins pointed out, they are not asked to make the
Monomachos
3/31/15 1:22pm
Other than Church callings, in what other ways are they not as committed?
Oceanographer
3/31/15 1:28pm
They committed to being active members of the Church. Period.
Monomachos
3/31/15 1:39pm
So, what if they lose their faith, but still attend church?
Oceanographer
3/31/15 1:49pm
Then we are back to square one: it is up to their bishop to determine
Monomachos
3/31/15 1:55pm
I'm fine with that, but how do nonmember students meet that aspect of the HC?
Oceanographer
3/31/15 2:35pm
"Commitment" is a tricky term. What if you came across a person of the Catholic
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 2:29pm
Not the same. The commitment at BYU brings defined responsibilities ang
Monomachos
3/31/15 4:24pm
Or make them get an ecclesiastical endorsement from another church
doubled1981
3/31/15 12:39pm
How did Luke Ashworth remain in school under this approach? IIRC he was not
jkccoug
4/1/15 10:52am
One of the questions of the Honor Code is interesting
MoveTheChains
3/31/15 11:25am
Why? I don't believe it is sinful to be in a female's apartment at 12:01 but
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 11:32am
Sin and the Honor Code are two different things
MoveTheChains
3/31/15 11:56am
I know sin and the honor code are two different things. That is exactly why
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 12:08pm
I have no issue with the Honor Code
MoveTheChains
4/1/15 2:09pm
The variation on leaders is a legitimate issue. One of the stake presidents I
Sandstone Cougar
3/31/15 11:37am
Variation is an issue in excommunication too.
PharmD
4/1/15 8:00am
Seems odd that an alumni group wants to pull the university's accreditation.
Real Men Wear Blue
3/31/15 11:44am
Luke Ashworth stayed and graduated. There is a disconnect somewhere.
NewMexiCoug
3/31/15 12:43pm
There's no disconnect. BYU made an exception for Luke. I don't know how often
DapperDan
3/31/15 12:45pm
Thanks. To me, an exception to a hard, fast policy is a disconnect,
NewMexiCoug
3/31/15 2:53pm
A different point of view
davevine
4/1/15 7:53am
Yeah I strongly disagree with that.
kudzucoug
4/1/15 7:55am
Wow, terrible idea
TepperCoug
4/1/15 8:14am
<< Deleted >>
davevine
4/1/15 8:17am
You can make your point without putting words in someone else's mouth.
kudzucoug
4/1/15 8:23am
Agreed
davevine
4/1/15 9:11am
I can see where you are coming from but measuring beliefs is a very difficult
kudzucoug
4/1/15 9:41am
I agree with your point that the couple does have responsibility for
Monomachos
4/1/15 2:36pm
If your concern is people billing the church, just charge more
jkccoug
4/1/15 8:06pm
That article is such crap. Apparently the 1st presidency and quorum...
COACHdrn
4/1/15 9:10am
had a friend whose Bishop wouldn't sign his endorsement
jkccoug
4/1/15 10:45am
I fully support the bishops at BYU. If they feel a student doesn't qualify for
IronPotato
4/1/15 4:54pm
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