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Jun 18, 2019
9:32:30am

Abe Froman All-American

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This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jun 18, 2019 at 9:32:30am

Message modified by Abe Froman on Jan 14, 2021 at 12:23:37am

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Abe Froman

Previous username: Rise and Shout
Bio page: Abe Froman
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Last login: May 22, 2024
Total posts: 87,148 (7,711 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

This post is so accurate. You can’t deny that the truth hurts. Although, there

bigbossbyu

6/18/19 1:13am

I think you probably made a good point but the wall of text was too much

Jericho

6/18/19 1:43am

Lol. My phone isn’t formatting properly, no matter how many edits I make..

bigbossbyu

6/18/19 1:47am

The paragraph was a great invention. Try it sometime.

Soy Celeste

6/18/19 1:49am

<< Deleted >>

bigbossbyu

6/18/19 1:53am

A couple issues with your analysis

donnerstag

6/18/19 4:44am

I’d say out of LaVell, Bronco, & Kalani that Kalani inherited the strongest

Odysseus

6/18/19 8:18am

What do you think are the appropriate expectations?

Indy Coug

6/18/19 8:23am

Beat Utah and be a Top 25 team around 50% of the time

Odysseus

6/18/19 8:38am

Be a top 25 team 50% of the time? Then your expectations are too high, IMO.

Indy Coug

6/18/19 8:58am

In today's environment it is much more difficult for BYU to finish in the top 25

DoseOfReality

6/18/19 9:48am

No, just no. Several MWC and AAC teams finish in the top 25. We can too.

Iki_Balam

6/18/19 11:24am

The max number of losses for a team finishing in the top 25 last year was 4.

DoseOfReality

6/18/19 11:34am

That was average for Bronco, btw. KS could easily do that, but he can't.

Iki_Balam

6/18/19 4:08pm

No don’t try to be all pragmatic and realistic, this is CB

icecougar

6/18/19 2:07pm

Well, you obviously were not a Cougar fan in the 80s and early 90s. The min...

BleedCougarBlue2

6/18/19 4:53pm

Yeah. Stop living in the past. The landscape of college football has changed dramatically since then.

Indy Coug

6/18/19 4:59pm

Also BYU had one of the worst bowl records in the nation under LaVell

Indy Coug

6/18/19 5:51pm

06-11 BYU finished in the top 25 five times.

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 6:19pm

Which promptly stopped when independence happened and the P5 scheduling shot up

Indy Coug

6/18/19 6:40pm

Finished top 25 in 2011. Spent time ranked every year but 2016 and 2017.

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 7:14pm

50% of seasons finishing in the top 25 is unrealistic. Unless we go back to the days

Indy Coug

6/18/19 7:42pm

Have to also remember Bronco was playing TCU/Utah who were top 25

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 7:44pm

If Kalani or anyone else can get 50% top 25 seasons vs 4-7 P5 teams

Indy Coug

6/18/19 7:54pm

Bronco did just that if you count TCU/Utah as P5.

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 8:19pm

haha...he only made it into the Coaches poll in 2011 after USC was dropped...

icecougar

6/19/19 6:01pm

We were literally talking about top 25 seasons which it qualifies.

Mr. Scoobs

6/19/19 6:41pm

that 10 win season included the 54-10 loss to Utah, easily BYU's most...

icecougar

6/20/19 10:39am

Was it disappointing? Yes. Does it meet the criteria of "top 25"? Yes.

Mr. Scoobs

6/20/19 10:45am

Which promptly stopped once all of Crowton's recruits left the program after ...

icecougar

6/19/19 5:16pm

10-3 top 25 in 2011. Finished 26 in sagarin in 2012.

Mr. Scoobs

6/19/19 5:25pm

hmmm... you used a lot of excuses in defending Bronco. The hypocrisy is...

icecougar

6/19/19 5:14pm

It's defending BYU, not Bronco. We had a good a chance as any in 2016

Mr. Scoobs

6/19/19 5:21pm

No, you are bitter that Bronco left and for some reason feel the need to take...

icecougar

6/20/19 10:56am

I think I have a better grasp on my feelings/thoughts. I don't care who

Mr. Scoobs

6/20/19 11:07am

If you aren't feeling pain with current state football you aren't a passionate

Mr. Scoobs

6/20/19 11:17am

I disagree. Bronco inherited a much stronger collection of experienced talent

donnerstag

6/18/19 8:28am

I'd say you are wrong.

Benfica1

6/18/19 9:02am

Bronco by far had the strongest group of players to work with when he came in....

Coug

6/18/19 9:12am

It seems like the cupboard was bare for Kalani because he used it so poorly

Odysseus

6/18/19 10:03am

Please list the players that were good under Bronco that regressed under Sitake

donnerstag

6/18/19 10:07am

RE: Please list the players that were good under Bronco that regressed under

Odysseus

6/18/19 10:10am

Trinnaman and Bushman never played for Bronco

donnerstag

6/18/19 10:16am

That’s a list of players who failed to develop under Kalani. I just don't see

Odysseus

6/18/19 10:21am

You're hurting your own credibility

donnerstag

6/18/19 10:29am

I was lazy and referenced a post of players who failed to develop under Kalani

Odysseus

6/18/19 10:31am

Bushman is still in the program and is the #4 ranked draft eligible

donnerstag

6/18/19 10:43am

Just win, baby. Kalani is 100% responsible for the W/L record. He’s in season

Odysseus

6/18/19 10:47am

Taysom was slow that year. The foot injury has to be considered.

Colorado

6/18/19 10:39am

Apparently his prior injuries are Sitakes fault.

Coug

6/18/19 10:46am

Are you serious? Like, how about the NFL talent!?

Iki_Balam

6/18/19 11:27am

Bronco had a group of players...

Coug

6/18/19 10:17am

Bronco benefited from Crowton (who handed over a dumpster fire) but Kalani

Odysseus

6/18/19 10:30am

Bronco took over an undisciplined group of players...

Coug

6/18/19 10:39am

and Kalani did great when he had great talent. 2016 they were 8 pts away from...

icecougar

6/18/19 3:11pm

Yep. And that was year 1. Year 2 drop off was HORRIBLE.

GOR

6/18/19 10:47am

and thank heavens we've moved well beyond that now

icecougar

6/18/19 3:50pm

Hardly

icecougar

6/18/19 2:06pm

That’s quite the revisionist history

Odysseus

6/18/19 2:32pm

RE: That’s quite the revisionist history

icecougar

6/18/19 3:14pm

He inherited enough to not finish #112 in 2017.

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 8:28am

When you say Sitake underperformed in 2016

donnerstag

6/18/19 8:36am

We finished 39 in 2016. Broncos AVERAGE finish was 33.

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 10:14am

He also inherited an OC not of his choosing

RICoug

6/18/19 8:43am

Nobody ever argued that BYU shouldn't have dropped so low. Coaches messed up and

Benfica1

6/18/19 8:54am

If last year wasn’t a 63 finish (worst since 17 and 03) then we could move on

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 10:41am

Crouton wasn’t fired for just his won / loss record. He had lost control of the

Soy Celeste

6/20/19 2:05pm

But most here would also agree the on-the-field performance wasn't good enough.

Mr. Scoobs

6/20/19 2:54pm

Agreed. The team was trending down.

Soy Celeste

6/20/19 3:09pm

that was a pretty lame analysis. How do recruiting class rankings ever...

icecougar

6/18/19 3:24pm

In no way should BYU finish #112 or lose to multiple bottom 10 teams

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 3:28pm

yes and it was 2 seasons ago and we have done better and there is plenty...

icecougar

6/18/19 3:48pm

Point being a 112 finish and a 63 finish after a decade of a 33 average

Mr. Scoobs

6/18/19 4:17pm

what is controversial is your intellectually dishonest approach and..

icecougar

6/19/19 1:50pm

There are no objective measures that indicate the program has improved under KS.

Mr. Scoobs

6/19/19 1:59pm

it doesn't matter what Bronco did after 2005, if your approach is to ...

icecougar

6/19/19 4:53pm

We have more than 1 year of evidence and a bowl game after 3 years of missing

Mr. Scoobs

6/19/19 5:03pm

Also, if 20-19 isn't good enough then 6-6 certainly is unquestionably not...

icecougar

6/19/19 4:58pm

55 was Bronco’s WORST finish in year 1. It’s better than KS AVERAGE.

Mr. Scoobs

6/19/19 8:10pm

<< Deleted >>

Abe Froman

6/18/19 9:32am

Here’s what’s so correct yet so wrong about your analysis

run26

6/18/19 9:41am

Obviously not. BYU employs non-LDS coaches. There is no official rule that says

Benfica1

6/18/19 9:47am

So it’s not a requirement that the HC be LDS?

run26

6/18/19 10:02am

I'll add to that BYU should've been a nearly undefeated team in 2016 if not for

Ash

6/18/19 10:40am

Praise this brother who speaks the truth!

Iki_Balam

6/18/19 11:31am

even so TH was still recovering from his lisfranc, maybe Detmer did that to...

icecougar

6/18/19 3:21pm

I have an idea, instead of arguing about talent, can we win against our rivals?

Iki_Balam

6/18/19 11:22am

Sorry I didn't see your post donnerstag. I basically copied you.

Ned Schneebly

6/18/19 11:39am

On one of your first points

BYUFam1

6/18/19 8:13pm

Agreed. It’s put up or shut up time for Kalani. There is reason to be optimistic

Odysseus

6/18/19 6:10am

I'd be happy even if we only beat Utah. Please just beat Utah once this decade.

Iki_Balam

6/18/19 11:35am

My viewpoint is that the Church will not likely use "church funds" to finance BYU sports. In fact, they will do all

Rhino84

6/18/19 8:25am

No need for church funds, the AD ran a $10.5M surplus last year.

NorCal_Coug

6/18/19 9:42am

And there are many areas that they can be more profitable.

wilsdad

6/18/19 10:49am

It's just a gut feeling, but I get the sense that our major sports (football and

blue13

6/18/19 9:41am

I feel like Kalani is on the right track now. (Fingers crossed)

BlueBeliever

6/18/19 10:39am

Because of LDS missions, BYU coaches should have at least 2 extra years

Bee Chunder

6/18/19 11:09am

It’s not just unfair, it’s unreasonable

icecougar

6/18/19 1:51pm

Poor argument parameters (not apples to apples)...

icecougar

6/18/19 1:31pm

Says the guy who is freeloading here....

Thrill

6/18/19 2:09pm

So you have to spend $ here to have an intelligent opinion? Really?

BleedCougarBlue2

6/18/19 4:47pm

Agreed: min 7-5 with a win over Utah or Sitake goes. Isn't 4 seasons enough....

BleedCougarBlue2

6/18/19 4:50pm

It’s borderline sad/depressing to be a BYU fan today

Cader

6/18/19 5:14pm

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