Tolkien defined the genre for a couple generations

May 23, 2020
10:22:32am

El Jefe Evil Genius

He defined the characteristics of elves, orcs, dwarves, etc for decades. Everyone else built off of his definition of a fantasy world.

Sanderson is breaking out of fantasy the way Tolkien defined it, but that doesn't mean it's a different genre.

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El Jefe

Bio page: El Jefe
Joined: Sep 15, 2001
Last login: May 7, 2024
Total posts: 77,199 (25,742 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Question for fans of the Stormlight Archives: how does it compare to Tolkien?

The Dark Knight

5/22/20 9:20pm

Tolkien is worlds better.

YSMACK

5/22/20 9:21pm

I’ve been trying to get my son to read Tolkien but he just can’t get through it. Stormlight is his

Cosmodiar

5/22/20 9:25pm

I agree Tolkien is better but Sanderson is different.

byujdmba

5/22/20 9:30pm

Yeah, but WOT books 7-11 don’t count.

Blue Print

5/22/20 9:44pm

True, and yet I'm one of the few who still love those middle books.

Cosmo's Uncle

5/22/20 9:56pm

You must really love the intricacies of embroidery.

Blue Print

5/22/20 9:58pm

By the time I got to the middle of the series, I was so invested in the world

Cosmo's Uncle

5/22/20 10:04pm

Sanderson did some good things, but his weaknesses w characters hurt

YSMACK

5/22/20 10:34pm

Wait, what!

Geldir

5/23/20 8:49pm

LOL. And?

YSMACK

5/24/20 2:51am

Sanderson isn't weak in character building.

Blue Print

5/24/20 10:04am

We disagree.

YSMACK

5/24/20 11:50am

I reread them all a couple of years ago. I was surprised at my reaction to them.

BlueCoug

5/22/20 10:23pm

Actually one other thing

BlueCoug

5/22/20 10:25pm

I would say the first 2 or even 3 books are masterpieces.

YSMACK

5/22/20 10:37pm

Mat is one of the best characters if not the best

Turd Ferguson

5/22/20 11:24pm

Wheel of Time was an incredible series and easy to reread.

JohnnyComeLately

5/22/20 10:01pm

Funny. I’m re-reading and am at "Crossroads."

byujdmba

5/22/20 10:42pm

I gave up on WoT after book 2.

panguitch

5/22/20 10:29pm

To be fair, no one really is. He’s the master

YIsForBrigham

5/23/20 10:04pm

I honestly prefer Stormlight Archives to anything Tolkien has written. Don't get me wrong, I loved LOR but writing has

TheLoneCougar

5/24/20 6:57pm

I love how Hemingway uses words, you can almost taste and feel...

So it goes...

5/24/20 7:49pm

I've never read Sanderson, but it took me a few attempts to warm up to Tolkien..

So it goes...

5/22/20 9:29pm

I love both. Both Wonderful. Tolkien in the context of WW2 helps me understand

BostonCougar

5/22/20 9:47pm

I'm a fan of both. Tolkien is a far better writer, but Sanderson is easier to

Cosmo's Uncle

5/22/20 9:55pm

Two different books-The first two Stormlight, are for me, maybe my favorite

Incentivize

5/22/20 10:01pm

The only fantasy I've read besides Tolkien is...

So it goes...

5/22/20 10:13pm

Yes. It's ok. Came out the same time as Shannara, in a rush to capitalize on

panguitch

5/22/20 10:16pm

They must not have been very good, because I can't remember a thing about them..

So it goes...

5/22/20 10:31pm

Nothing can compare to Tolkien. Sanderson is one of the best fantasists today.

panguitch

5/22/20 10:22pm

Well said. Amazing to me that “Fantasy Fans” of today can’t see how amazing Tolkien was

JohnnyComeLately

5/23/20 10:05am

Tolkien defined the genre for a couple generations

El Jefe

5/23/20 10:22am

Like panguitch said it’s like comparing the Iliad to Gladiator.

JohnnyComeLately

5/23/20 10:33am

I agree that Tolkien defined what we would call Classic Fantasy, although it's still fairly recent

El Jefe

5/23/20 10:39am

Tolkien essentially took the modern Fantasy genre from 0 to 1. That's the hardest step.

SpiffCoug

5/23/20 10:55am

I agree, every modern day fantasy writer uses some aspects of Tolkien in their works.

JohnnyComeLately

5/23/20 11:00am

Totally different experience. Sanderson is really good in how easy he is to read

IUCougar

5/22/20 10:52pm

Malazan BOTF is my favorite fantasy series.

jaromp

5/23/20 8:51am

The writing is Malazan BOTF is just absolutely top notch. I loved that series.

No touching

5/23/20 2:02pm

Absolutely agree with your statement about Malazan being better the second time

Cosmo's Uncle

5/23/20 10:31am

I agree MBotF is a slog

Reedme

5/23/20 4:13pm

It is hard to say that it gets easier (or better). But all the story lines do

IUCougar

5/23/20 8:34pm

I tried Malazan. That was HARD.I gave up pretty quick.No idea waht was happening

Geldir

5/23/20 9:08pm

I found those books opened up to me a lot on a second reading.

YSMACK

5/24/20 3:36am

I find Sanderson to have better character development than Tolkien and less

IrishBlue

5/22/20 10:53pm

Tolkien is literature, Sanderson is entertainment.

valleus

5/22/20 11:29pm

Quite a statement. Care to elaborate?

SandYFan

5/23/20 1:40am

Tolkien was a professor at Cambridge, knew multiple languages, extremely

valleus

5/23/20 9:00am

Oxford. The label "literature" is for poseurs. Sanderson sneaks some deep stuff

panguitch

5/23/20 10:39am

“Literature is for poseurs.” Sure thing dude. People will be reading Tolkien in

valleus

5/23/20 10:45am

I think Sanderson will be more durable than you think.

Cougarrr

5/23/20 10:54am

Sanderson is head and shoulders above most fantasists today. Of course he will

panguitch

5/23/20 10:57am

Tolkien said his stuff wasn’t literature

Sumguy

5/23/20 11:04am

RE: Tolkien is literature, Sanderson is entertainment.

lolapaluuza

8/23/20 1:19pm

I credit Tolkein for getting me into "adult level" fantasy when I was a kid, but

DoctorWho

5/23/20 1:19am

Tolkien is so dry! It's painful. I can't put Sanderson down.

annapcoug

5/23/20 6:30am

Tolkien made a world, not just a story.

El Jefe

5/23/20 8:29am

Tolkien was an academic. Sanderson is a professional.

TwinsRight

5/23/20 9:13am

I love both authors, but they are very different in style and how they approach both story telling and world building.

durandal

5/23/20 12:47pm

One more suggestion. If you haven't already, read The Hobbit. It's much easier to read than LotR and it sets up

durandal

5/23/20 2:07pm

Sent this as a BM, but wanted to see if other people had input on it.

Geldir

5/23/20 9:29pm

Sanderson original Mistborn series is very good

I'mBatman

5/23/20 9:54pm

Stick with it! The first part of the Way of Kings was hard for me to get into. The start fakes you out about 3 times

durandal

5/23/20 9:56pm

I finished the first book

I'mBatman

5/23/20 10:03pm

Ah, well fair enough then. I loved the second book, but it may not be for you.

durandal

5/23/20 10:08pm

I never liked her character either.

EtTuKalante

5/23/20 10:18pm

Kaladin is great, but sometimes a little superhero-ish. That can be a tendency

panguitch

5/23/20 10:30pm

Agree completely. Kal is amazing & Shallan is awful (see below on 1 reason why)

YSMACK

5/24/20 3:22am

Shallan's character is awful.

YSMACK

5/24/20 2:42am

Textbook deadpan sarcasm

TwinsRight

5/24/20 8:30am

Where do you fit CS Lewis on here?

OU Cougar

5/23/20 9:58pm

I'm not familiar with Sanderson. Where would I start to begin his series? Are...

CougaReb

5/24/20 12:43am

Start with the Mistborn series.

Cru Jones

5/24/20 12:46am

Seconded.

BostonCougar

5/24/20 9:14am

Most of his fantasy novels take place in the same universe he calls the Cosmere.

durandal

5/24/20 9:38am

There is one specific instance for reading order being important, IMO. That is

DoctorWho

5/24/20 10:21am

I think you should also read the Mistborn Secret History before Oathbringer

El Jefe

5/24/20 10:23am

I'm assuming by "the book" you are talking about Oathbringer. If so, I agree.

DoctorWho

5/24/20 10:25am

Fixed 😁

El Jefe

5/24/20 11:19am

That definitely would enhance the reading, though I think they can still be thoroughly enjoyed in any order.

durandal

5/24/20 11:58am

I'd read them in roughly publish order. His writing skills improve over time.

BlueCoug

5/24/20 10:49am

Here's the recommended reading order from Sanderson himself

Reedme

5/24/20 12:19pm

He finished Wheel of Time when Robert Jordan died, if you've heard of those or are interested.

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