The OP's

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Mar 10, 2016
6:49:14pm

BYU'01 3rd String

The OP's

Suggested KC was by far BYU's least productive offensive player. I'd suggest it reflects a bigger deficiency in his metric rather than a reflection on KC or Rose. I'm a big fan of quantitative analysis, sabremetrics, etc but his 1st pass has some big holes.

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BYU'01

Bio page: BYU'01
Joined: Jan 18, 2003
Last login: May 13, 2024
Total posts: 7,713 (116 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

BYU offensive basketball, by the numbers.

proudcugr

3/9/16 5:21pm

What was Kyle by year?

BYUheaven

3/9/16 5:29pm

RE: What was Kyle by year?

proudcugr

3/9/16 5:37pm

Thank goodness KC is gone next year.

sah22

3/9/16 9:20pm

KC summary: ball wouldn't go in the hoop + turnovers

Hinta

3/9/16 5:55pm

Totally agree - not intending to show "value"

proudcugr

3/9/16 6:08pm

Pretty good assessment for offensive side of the ball

ledfoot

3/9/16 6:12pm

The other thing that validates this assessment is it identifies some of the

ledfoot

3/9/16 6:17pm

Thx for putting this together! Fascinating actually and confirms what gut/eyes

BlooGeek

3/9/16 6:20pm

your assessment does not account for rebounding, assists, and steals...KC was

idacoug

3/9/16 6:24pm

Totally 100% agree

proudcugr

3/9/16 6:29pm

This. OP mentioned this clearly

yfootball

3/10/16 11:03am

I think the analysis is "You don't want to end a possession with KC."

3/9/16 6:30pm

Or - "KC ends more possessions than any other player with less results"

proudcugr

3/9/16 6:58pm

True, but it ignores other player's successfuly ended pos. made possible by KC

SconnieCoug

3/10/16 2:43pm

I think you could easily add in Offensive Rebounds as a factor because that

Zenoch

3/9/16 7:51pm

I think this stat is being misunderstood

proudcugr

3/9/16 8:30pm

You can't include turnovers in scoring efficiency

Mr Bassman

3/9/16 8:37pm

I think this is less about misunderstanding the stat...

RICoug

3/10/16 10:27am

No other player would have performed as well in KC's role

SconnieCoug

3/10/16 2:59pm

Great post. Keep your tripleDs, give me Cummard over KC 8X a week.

ag4cougs

3/9/16 6:57pm

Halford? His slash line indicates he was highly efficient.

ag4cougs

3/9/16 7:01pm

RE: Halford? His slash line indicates he was highly efficient.

proudcugr

3/9/16 8:32pm

He, Haws and Winder...all made good use of their possessions last year.

ag4cougs

3/9/16 8:46pm

"I didn't go in with an agenda"

Mr Bassman

3/9/16 7:03pm

I don't think that you can leave out assists and make this be accurate.

j1800collett

3/9/16 7:56pm

The problem is that the stat is flawed

Mr Bassman

3/9/16 8:11pm

Maybe you don't understand what a "stat" is. It's just numbers. It's only flawed

BlooGeek

3/10/16 10:23am

There's a problem with that

proudcugr

3/9/16 8:22pm

Then why include turnovers? A stat with no possible positive outcome. Just negative.

Mr Bassman

3/9/16 8:24pm

Not all turnovers are from him trying to score. Some are from trying to setup others. Some are just dumb mistakes

Mr Bassman

3/9/16 8:28pm

The reality is that..

BYU'01

3/9/16 10:24pm

How many times does he have to say they were better of with him on the floor

BlooGeek

3/10/16 10:28am

What?

BYU'01

3/10/16 10:48am

This response is very unproductive

j1800collett

3/10/16 5:07pm

A better analysis - Take two

proudcugr

3/9/16 11:12pm

This is very insightful. Thanks.

Megamind

3/9/16 11:41pm

I did feel like we needed to get Seljaas more involved on O that last game.

3/10/16 9:03am

Gaps vs. Defensiveness

BYU'01

3/10/16 9:32am

Basically, KC took too many shots. Makes sense to me.

jkccoug

3/10/16 3:08pm

KC took fewer shots & made a higher percent of them than Fisch and Emery overall

SconnieCoug

3/10/16 3:56pm

Wrong metric

proudcugr

3/10/16 6:41pm

How well did this player convert his possessions into points.

SconnieCoug

3/11/16 9:55am

Basic Data

proudcugr

3/11/16 12:05pm

Rose used KC like that because he had to.

archie

3/9/16 11:41pm

It would be interesting if you could cut the data

leopardfan

3/10/16 1:33am

I love posts that bring a new thought to the table. Thanks for sharing!

3/10/16 4:48am

RE: BYU offensive basketball, by the numbers.

oldrugger

3/10/16 9:22am

Why not just use player efficiency ratings? They include all major stats

jkccoug

3/10/16 10:41am

You might say that PER tells how much a player should be on the floor

3/10/16 10:54am

Great take.

jkccoug

3/10/16 11:45am

Nobody had a higher assist-to-turnover ratio...

BYU'01

3/10/16 12:37pm

Not sure which measure of efficiency you mean, PER or the OP

jkccoug

3/10/16 3:10pm

The OP's

BYU'01

3/10/16 6:49pm

Please don't misquote me

proudcugr

3/10/16 7:42pm

You said you analyzed data "for offensive production"

BYU'01

3/10/16 9:39pm

RE: You said you analyzed data "for offensive production"

proudcugr

3/10/16 10:52pm

Agree, good discussion, a couple of things to consider

BYU'01

3/11/16 12:04pm

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