In theory. But the invisible hand moves slower when it requires govt fiat

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Jun 9, 2019
10:46:57am

JollyGreenGiant Starter

In theory. But the invisible hand moves slower when it requires govt fiat

In Utah for example there is a teacher shortage. Supply and demand would dictate we raise wages to attract more teachers. But, my friend, that depends on politics. It’s not just automatic like in private business. Hence, we have this conversation over and over.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jun 9, 2019 at 10:46:57am

Message modified by JollyGreenGiant on Jun 9, 2019 at 10:47:20am

Message modified by JollyGreenGiant on Jun 9, 2019 at 10:47:56am

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JollyGreenGiant

Previous username: Cashmeousside
Bio page: JollyGreenGiant
Joined: Mar 5, 2017
Last login: Apr 26, 2024
Total posts: 13,523 (6,509 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

From my experience - most of the people who bag on teachers publicly

newbie

6/9/19 9:06am

Geez- Why can't I spell Publicly

newbie

6/9/19 9:10am

Or principal.

The Dude Abides

6/9/19 9:11am

Or just about anything really

newbie

6/9/19 9:11am

I yused huked onn fonicks to hellp mee.

6/9/19 10:03am

You probably had bad teachers or your parents didn’t care

6/9/19 9:16am

Just spell it fonetickley for us.

Q-grr

6/9/19 9:13am

My only complaint about teachers, and it’s not all of them. Is that they

6/9/19 9:17am

What state are you in? They are begging for teachers where I live.

Q-grr

6/9/19 9:18am

Idaho. I also served on the school board (district over 10,000 students) as the

6/9/19 9:23am

Idaho is saturated with teachers because it's an "approved" job for LDS women.

TheWanderer

6/9/19 9:56am

How does anything you wrote disprove supply and demand?

6/9/19 9:59am

It's not just raw supply and demand. Quality also comes into play.

TheWanderer

6/9/19 10:05am

I was on the board in 93 for 4 years. I can speak from experience that it is the

6/9/19 10:14am

Being on the school board means you represented the "other side."

TheWanderer

6/9/19 3:49pm

I’ll give it to you that I’m conservative, but that board as a whole is far from

6/9/19 4:10pm

just because there are enough applicants, doesn't mean there are enough qualified applicants. I'm told that in Utah,

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 9:22am

This is probably true

newbie

6/9/19 9:25am

I don't think so - I think that over the last 40 years there has been a significant brain drain from teaching.

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 9:33am

You are exactly right. The quality may be down, and negotiations typically

6/9/19 9:27am

It's CRAZY when teachers aren't paid for their ability.

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 9:34am

I agree. Districts should be allowed to negotiate with individuals rather than

6/9/19 9:38am

This is true too...I used to get upwards of 100 applicants for certain content

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 9:38am

Is it okay to complain when the pay schedule is frozen for 10 years?

Jeffacka

6/9/19 9:30am

Wouldn’t be frozen if half the teachers in the country quit.

6/9/19 9:32am

SLC teachers just turned down a $50k starting wage package..I get why

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 9:45am

What’s the current starting wage?

6/9/19 9:47am

In SLC school district it's around 45K...so a $5K raise for 1st year teachers

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 9:51am

Back that up with evidence. You're wrong.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 11:07am

That is complete ignorance. Good day.

6/9/19 12:24pm

You got trapped in a pit.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 2:35pm

How so? You asked for proof without providing any yourself.

6/9/19 2:52pm

RE: How so? You asked for proof without providing any yourself.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 3:01pm

If that happened nationwide you know wages would go up.

6/9/19 3:10pm

We tried that, but we can't walk out forever.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 3:13pm

I respect someone that does it anyway, but you agreed on the wage.

6/9/19 3:15pm

That makes sense now.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 3:26pm

What do you mean?

6/9/19 3:27pm

I am not stating here you shouldn’t be paid more. I am claiming the market

6/9/19 3:17pm

Great thought, but that's not really how it works.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 3:28pm

I really feel you keep slighting me here.

6/9/19 3:35pm

There's just a lot going over your head.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 3:49pm

So you are going to talk down to me, got it.

6/9/19 4:12pm

You can't disagree with facts.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 4:16pm

Like the facts of supply and demand. I knew you’d get it.

6/9/19 4:18pm

That has nothing to do with teaching. The situation proves that point.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 4:31pm

Lol, Lip Gallagher obviously doesn’t understand supply and demand.

6/9/19 9:43am

Why add supply and demand to your statement

84 Grad

6/9/19 10:10am

I just laugh at the people who aren't teachers who pretend to know it all about

6/9/19 10:56am

RE: I just laugh at the people who aren't teachers who pretend to know it all

6/9/19 12:26pm

In theory. But the invisible hand moves slower when it requires govt fiat

JollyGreenGiant

6/9/19 10:46am

I believe the education of our children shouldn't be left to market forces.

Cougarrr

6/9/19 10:59am

So what should they be paid? $150K

6/9/19 12:44pm

The easiest way to know if teachers are getting paid enough is to see the kind of applications you're getting to fill

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 2:51pm

This is accurate to an extent.

6/9/19 2:55pm

my hope is many of them are out of work because the pay got doubled. We take our education with us when we die. It's

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 3:05pm

Great points.

6/9/19 3:23pm

Sounds like your children are home schooled.

Bullrider

6/9/19 2:53pm

#Preach (perfect day to do so)

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 9:18am

I bag on teacher's publicly - their industry doesn't do a good job of firing underperforming people. Underperforming

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 9:20am

It's a double edged sword...the vast majority of teachers protect other teachers

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 9:28am

How do you propose to fix the teacher shortage.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 9:29am

Get rid of teachers unions

KingDave

6/9/19 9:38am

Explain Arizona. We don't have a union.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 11:08am

Supply and demand.

6/9/19 12:48pm

There's a teaching shortage.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 2:34pm

Really? Then why are no schools being closed?

6/9/19 2:59pm

Legislators have a huge influence on class size, but that's a different story.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 3:08pm

Sounds much worse than here.

6/9/19 3:26pm

Spoken like a true Idaho school board member.

TheWanderer

6/9/19 3:55pm

So many bad school board members in this country.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 4:08pm

Some people just can't be reached.

Jeffacka

6/9/19 4:09pm

The fix in NY (because pay is good) is to require the firing of 5% of all teachers each year. Way too much dead

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 9:39am

Um, you can't come up with a system based on a set number. It has to be about

6/9/19 10:59am

It’d take years of 5% before it would be a problem. Then revisit the policy.

6/9/19 12:58pm

You are exactly right. The teachers organization won’t allow districts to do

6/9/19 9:30am

There's really only three ways to immediately can a teacher: 1. screw with kids

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 9:37am

Aren’t teachers evaluated annually on the academic progress of their students?

Bullrider

6/9/19 3:24pm

Is it teachers that should be bagged on in this case, or admins?

TheWanderer

6/9/19 10:00am

This is true..but it's the unions who created the process to fire a teacher

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 10:04am

That is a good point. Unions do have excessive force.

TheWanderer

6/9/19 10:08am

I could tell you SO many stories about bad teachers being protected by a

Don_Juan_El_Guapo

6/9/19 10:12am

2 years ago in NY - more teachers were convicted (that's not accused... it's convicted) of a sex crime against

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 10:37am

By necessity shouldn't the number of convicted sex offenders <= fired?

TheWanderer

6/9/19 1:56pm

that's my point. It should be the other way. But they allow convicted criminals to stay on the payroll until the

HarlemCoug

6/9/19 2:52pm

I see. Wow.

TheWanderer

6/9/19 3:56pm

Education is not the only professional where bad employees stay employed

84 Grad

6/9/19 2:16pm

My only complaint is assignments that make a whole household angry.

Belboz

6/9/19 10:12am

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