I'm glad you're close to getting my point.

It's disheartening to treat victims in that manner. They shouldn't be punished

tebowned

4/13/16 5:27am

I would feel bad if she lost her job for enforcing a policy that she had no

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 5:36am

What evidence is there that anyone has been punished for being raped?

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 5:51am

Read about Brooke

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:33am

To be precise, she was punished for dropping acid, not for being raped

BYUCoug11

4/13/16 7:31am

since when did drug use

warp

4/13/16 7:38am

I made no comment on the severity of the punishment. That's another discussion

BYUCoug11

4/13/16 8:01am

Exactly

Coog4Life

4/13/16 7:55am

Westerberg should be terminated immediately

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:24am

there's no place for this kind of talk IMO

gmj81

4/13/16 6:50am

There is always a place for this kind of talk. It's here and now.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:51am

cause for termination of someone who did nothing wrong?

gmj81

4/13/16 6:57am

She didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 7:01am

Then Westerberg had better start telling her side now. Doesn't look good here.

Squeegee

4/13/16 7:12am

Why? To satisfy clamoring masses? No, any organization of this kind will

gmj81

4/13/16 9:13am

Then Carrie should say something. BYU has been accused of punishing victims.

Squeegee

4/13/16 9:14am

I'm afraid of what Carrie will say...

jayriggity

4/13/16 9:30am

It's fair to note, that true or not-

RedlandsCoug

4/13/16 10:28am

<< Deleted >>

Northwest Cougar

4/13/16 11:07am

If the quotes are accurate? Yes there is.

TheHop

4/13/16 6:56am

Do you not see the irony in your post? You're making broad conclusions based on hearsay...

Byron McNertney

4/13/16 7:31am

I see the irony.

TheHop

4/13/16 7:43am

Hypocrisy rings loud and clear when you hit it with the hammer of indignation.

YSMACK

4/13/16 11:21am

I don't think anyone would disagree that victims shouldn't be punished...

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 5:49am

The title IX office and Honor Code office should not be married together

Saxa

4/13/16 5:59am

But just because the HC is involved doesn't indicate guilt...

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 6:14am

I agree with your statement in principal, unfortunately

Saxa

4/13/16 6:53am

I think appropriate policy maybe…

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 7:12am

SVU (and every other university in America) has already answered your question

jayriggity

4/13/16 7:36am

The stories of Madeline and "Emily" are by far the most troubling

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 9:01am

This is a huge black eye on the school

Cougarealist

4/13/16 5:50am

Whether or not you agree with BYU's current practices

SJS

4/13/16 7:13am

It sounds horrible. But I'll wait to hear something from a credible source before I give my opinion.

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 8:43am

What is your opinion of the source not being credible

Cougarealist

4/13/16 9:25am

It's the Trib. Enough said. When we hear the complete story with all the facts, I'll weigh in.

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 9:58am

RE: It's the Trib. Enough said. When we hear the complete story with all the

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:00am

This not tied to religion? Do you really trust them to be able to distinguish

gmj81

4/13/16 10:21am

You probably don't read the crime section of the several state and local papers

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:33am

They didn't report a crime. They spent several months finding cases at BYU who were willing to voice

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 10:24am

First, they didn't spend "several months" gathering stories

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:30am

In sum, I'm waiting for more info to come out on a heated issue. You reached a conclusion before this story came out

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 10:36am

LOL

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:38am

You are the lone person using emotion here

Cougarealist

4/13/16 1:48pm

How much do you really know about the HCO? You are throwing out Gestapo like

Real G Man

4/13/16 11:03am

RE: How much do you really know about the HCO? You are throwing out Gestapo like

BYUtiful

4/13/16 11:20am

This is a damaging article. Westerberg probably just lost her job =(

Saxa

4/13/16 5:57am

this is complex - I'm undecided. But you're saying - do drugs and get raped then you get to stay in school. Do drugs

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:06am

That's quite a leap saying they're getting rewarded by getting assaulted

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 6:09am

agreed - and actually was editing my post while you were typing this

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:11am

I don't know why it's damaging it's a very real part of the discussion

gmj81

4/13/16 6:36am

BYU has every right and opportunity to defend themselves in this discussion

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:52am

uh, no they can't. the students have rights to privacy.

gmj81

4/13/16 7:07am

They can defend the policy without discussing individual case specifics

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:11am

I would argue that it may be hard to defend a policy without specifics.

gmj81

4/13/16 7:22am

I'm saying divorce title IX from the Honor Code.

Saxa

4/13/16 6:09am

why

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:11am

RE: why

Saxa

4/13/16 6:55am

Title Nine, not Four (IX, not IV)

Left Shark Coug

4/13/16 6:19am

Yes, thank you

Saxa

4/13/16 6:43am

Honor Code policies will protect students from harm

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:25am

"one might say the student has suffered consequences for rule breaking"

spinner

4/13/16 6:35am

So Honor Code breakers deserve to be assaulted. Got it.

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:39am

Common sense is dead in this country. Got it

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:47am

You want to compare buying drugs in Baltimore with being in someone's apartment

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:51am

No one is going to be expelled from school for violating curfew

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:54am

More victim blaming. Genius.

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:59am

That's right all that counsel I give my daughters is victim blaming

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:11am

There's a difference between counseling girls and women to exercise caution

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:19am

You are the ones saying this!!!!!

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:20am

There's a huge difference between proactive counsel and reactive victin blaming.

joelvandyne

4/13/16 7:54am

Maybe you should look at how many people disagree with you and then think again about...

BengalCougar

4/13/16 11:09am

That doesn't seem to be a very good defense.

gmj81

4/13/16 11:48am

So if someone gets high or drunk and they get raped, you think they had it coming and deserved it...

BengalCougar

4/13/16 11:05am

No one deserves to be harmed by another person

Busiturtle

4/13/16 11:14am

<< Deleted >>

Baron

4/13/16 6:57am

The people in the story weren't breaking the honor code and were still

Baron

4/13/16 6:58am

And we know this how?

gmj81

4/13/16 7:25am

Are you serious? It is clear you have some connection to this because of your

Baron

4/13/16 7:31am

Illegal drugs are a minor infraction?

gmj81

4/13/16 8:06am

For you people voting thumbs down

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:00am

Lol ... You discussing self-righteousness

coolcats

4/13/16 7:03am

So the girl that was raped in a bathroom or who was raped at the scenic overlook

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 7:50am

I just don't understand why an investigation alone is so harmful.

gmj81

4/13/16 8:07am

Because it creates an disincentive to reporting. Plain and simple.

jayriggity

4/13/16 8:15am

Because the HC doesnt have a good public track record with their "invesigations"

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 8:15am

Holy cow.

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 9:03am

This is the one time I wish I were a MOD, just to delete this post.

El Fuego

4/13/16 10:16am

He deserves to be shamed for it

DapperDan

4/13/16 10:20am

I'm now decided. Any policy that discourages future victims of rape from reporting the rapist

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:36am

Seems like "being raped" is a pretty good punishment for doing drugs. Maybe some mercy is needed?

Finngirl

4/13/16 10:29am

You assume there was no mercy given.

gmj81

4/13/16 10:39am

I have no idea if mercy was given. Just pointing out to the posters on the thread that perhaps in these

Finngirl

4/13/16 10:45am

I agree. If this reporting is accurate, there needs to be changes.

Ashtrash

4/13/16 12:06pm

Even worse, it seems to be policy that any assault is reported

spinner

4/13/16 6:20am

no indication? the individual was involved in sexual activity and is making

gmj81

4/13/16 6:47am

Any report gets investigated by the Honor Code Office

spinner

4/13/16 7:04am

I won't defend the policy per se but I can understand it.

gmj81

4/13/16 10:46am

Wait, being raped is NOT an honor code violation

spinner

4/13/16 10:52am

Correct. But gmj81's statement is also correct: we don't know why the HC gets

jayriggity

4/13/16 10:57am

Calm down, you misread my post. I realize a rape is not an infraction

gmj81

4/13/16 11:03am

OK I'm calm, but I still think what you suggest is terrible

spinner

4/13/16 11:13am

To be clear, that scenario was a hypothetical to see where people

gmj81

4/13/16 11:54am

I don't know how you investigate the perp and not the victim.

Eddie

4/13/16 12:03pm

The HCO doesnt need to investigate. Let the police do it.

concolor couguar

4/13/16 12:09pm

Actually, I agree.

Eddie

4/13/16 12:13pm

The police should only report it if the girls asks them to

concolor couguar

4/13/16 12:19pm

Are the police the ones that kick the rapist off campus? At some point the HCO

gmj81

4/13/16 12:26pm

Easy the police charge with rape kick them off campus

concolor couguar

4/13/16 12:28pm

There are very different levels of evidence that have to be considered.

Eddie

4/13/16 1:20pm

I dont know how you got to that point.

concolor couguar

4/13/16 1:39pm

If the police are the only ones who ever hear/know about sexual assault...

Eddie

4/13/16 1:47pm

and you disagree with letting the victim make the call on going further?

concolor couguar

4/13/16 1:50pm

No.

Eddie

4/13/16 2:14pm

I'm fine with another organization getting involved with the victims consent

concolor couguar

4/13/16 2:23pm

Being the victim of a crime does not eliminate accountability

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:12am

the problem though is that if we kick her out of school then no girl in her situation would report the rape and the

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:19am

Thoughts?

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:26am

I don't like the idea of giving predators a road map of how to rape

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:31am

people aren't kicked out of school for missing curfew by a minute

The Shazad

4/13/16 6:36am

The point is the predator in that scenario

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:46am

that's not something that gets people kicked out of school either

The Shazad

4/13/16 7:10am

Error on the side of ensuring known rapists never set foot on campus again.

LunchTime

4/13/16 7:16am

as for erring on the side of punishing....

The Shazad

4/13/16 7:41am

There are a lot of straw men being thrown around about the honor code. People

runnincoug

4/13/16 7:57am

how about making sure these girls aren't ignorant

Y05

4/13/16 6:56am

I've never been in a hostile situation like this

Coog4Life

4/13/16 7:02am

What about this one:

RedlandsCoug

4/13/16 10:53am

That's a worthwhile risk in order to ensure

Cougarealist

4/13/16 6:32am

I could not disagree more. Far greater harm is done to society when innocent

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:41am

Holy cow, literally can't believe I'm reading this

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:47am

Absolutely serious

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:50am

You might say that a man being accused of rape

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:47am

in a false accusation case at least it gets to a hearing - in a "you're kicked out of school guarantee" then the rapist

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:34am

I have two boys, I do not want a policy that would encourage them being falsely

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:42am

Then tell them not to have sex with girls. Problem solved.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:49am

Who said any sex occurred

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:52am

They were drinking at a party with strippers. That's an honor code violation too

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:56am

Uh couldn't that be said of the victims you're defending too?

gmj81

4/13/16 8:13am

I'm glad you're close to getting my point.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:21am

wow - you're on meltdown man - you really should stop tying.

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:53am

I have two girls. I don't want a policy that will encourage them to not report

Squeegee

4/13/16 7:10am

If they were to be assaulted would you discourage them from making a report

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:12am

No. I want people to take responsibility for their actions. I want them to know

Squeegee

4/13/16 7:21am

Well your boys shouldnt be in situations where rape can occur isnt that your

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 7:56am

i don't see why it is so hard for everyone to separate the two

Y05

4/13/16 6:45am

the reality is this - if you expel her - she won't report and the rapist stays on campus and goes unpunished. It's a

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:55am

and if honor code violations go unpunished, then the HC

Y05

4/13/16 6:58am

Let me get this straight. You argue that the Honor Code is lone thing that is

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 7:59am

no not the lone thing

Y05

4/13/16 1:11pm

as would drinking, underage drinking,

Y05

4/13/16 1:13pm

The solution is simple. In the case of a rape with drugs don't kick the victim

Bert609

4/13/16 6:47am

BYU really needs to re-think how it looks at this issue, this is terrible

spinner

4/13/16 6:14am

serious issue but I would caution anyone from using a one sided trib piece

gmj81

4/13/16 6:33am

I love BYU, but they should get raked over the coals for this

Paco

4/13/16 6:41am

I agree on the Trib. But many of us believe the HC is broken. That's WHY it's

Bert609

4/13/16 7:07am

The trib is horrible for religion and sports, but their crime reporting is the

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 7:51am

This. it sounds like BYU needs to address this policy, but let's not jump to

runnincoug

4/13/16 8:01am

Yeah, it's not like anyone's using an unbiased piece by Desnews or KSL

DapperDan

4/13/16 8:24am

If that doesn't get fixed I'm not sure my wife will let our kids go to BYU

Paco

4/13/16 6:36am

... Or continue donating

Paco

4/13/16 6:37am

It's safer at Utah

maxpowers

4/13/16 6:42am

Ya. We won't let our kids even look at the neighbors b/c there's misconduct...

whirl

4/13/16 7:07am

Does Carri Jenkins ever get dizzy with all the spinning?

OpusX

4/13/16 6:46am

This. There's a reason White House press secretaries cycle so frequently

SJS

4/13/16 7:05am

Once the police are involved, frankly, the Honor Code office needs to step aside

Squeegee

4/13/16 6:52am

How would God judge these people? you break the rules that lead to something bad

bald man

4/13/16 6:52am

so let God judge. the question is.... is it a good policy to expel a girl who reports her rape and admits to an honor

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 7:04am

I'm not arguing for or against byu's honor code in this. I'm just wondering how

bald man

4/13/16 7:15am

Pretend you're God .. one of your daughters just got raped for 45 minutes.... how are you going to react towards her?

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 7:26am

so, if they spent 10 years in drugs, sex with tons of partners

bald man

4/13/16 7:34am

Change can happen in an instant. Let God sort it out, not the honor code office.

PharmCoug

4/13/16 8:23am

Bingo! We SHOULD try to judge these people the way God would.

Bert609

4/13/16 7:06am

Better question: how would Christ treat rape victims who are BYU students?

SJS

4/13/16 7:06am

By casting stones. Big ones.

Bert609

4/13/16 7:08am

So, if I sin and that leads to suffering something awful, that's my punishment

bald man

4/13/16 7:16am

If you'd like to explain how repentance for sin involves the HC office

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:21am

Again, I'm not talking about the HC. that is not an ecclasiastical organization

bald man

4/13/16 7:36am

Repentance is different than punishment. In many situations adding

Bert609

4/13/16 7:21am

Thank you for actually reading and understanding my posts. And that is a great

bald man

4/13/16 7:38am

HC doesn't need to fill that role.

LunchTime

4/13/16 7:22am

Ok, I'll bite. I'll finally answer the HC involvement.

bald man

4/13/16 7:40am

Maybe you and your bishop could handle it? Not the HC office?

SJS

4/13/16 7:22am

oh, I agree that the handling of sins should be between you and bishop but

bald man

4/13/16 7:42am

Its a good thing Christ never talked to a woman taken in adultery cuz theres no

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 8:02am

He would treat her small transgression (acid for example) like he did the

tebowned

4/13/16 3:51pm

God would overturn every table in the HC office.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 7:09am

So you're saying the brethren are just uninspired at this point?

gmj81

4/13/16 8:15am

lol if you think criticizing HC is criticizing the brethren. what a joke

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:21am

you know this because you work in the HC? or it just fits your world view?

bald man

4/13/16 8:17am

so my speculation about what god would do is invalid because i don't work in HCO

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:20am

Your logic has holes in it a mile wide.

bald man

4/13/16 8:27am

Got it. So you were just wondering what god would do

Linescratcher

4/13/16 9:00am

Wow, you have issues.

bald man

4/13/16 10:35am

Yes, let's let the honor code office think they are God in the instance of

cougarnerd

4/13/16 8:02am

I'm sure God is very worried about how late someone was in an apartment when they are raped

Deleted

4/13/16 8:21am

I DON'T KNOW DUDE MAYBE GETTING RAPED IS PUNISHMENT ENOUGH WHAT DO YOU THINK

SPORTS

4/13/16 8:52am

If it's a legitimate rape...

Polecat

4/13/16 12:39pm

Fairly and compassionately.

JoeyJoeJoeJr

4/13/16 9:41am

Partner can't restrain themselves? Yes they can, every time.

Polecat

4/13/16 11:52am

After reading the quotes.....

TheHop

4/13/16 6:54am

Proof? There is a lot in this story, but what "proof" are you claiming this

UNLVcougar

4/13/16 7:13am

It's amazing that people are still defending the HC and the HC office

uberslacker

4/13/16 7:18am

In the end, this is going to lead to a government investigation

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:40am

<< Deleted >>

cvd6262

4/13/16 7:48am

Sadly this isn't a new story and I don't believe it is just "trib reporting"

SweetBabyG

4/13/16 7:44am

Retracted

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 7:55am

I knew the article was credible before it was published.

SweetBabyG

4/13/16 8:07am

Nevermind

Deleted

4/13/16 8:24am

I think he's saying he believes the article despite the Trib's reputation

jbcoug

4/13/16 8:27am

He's not attacking the article.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:27am

The link to this story just went up on the Trib's Facebook page

jbcoug

4/13/16 9:35am

This is going to be a huge black eye. National media will pick it up as well.

El Fuego

4/13/16 10:49am

Posting on CougarBoard