Even worse, it seems to be policy that any assault is reported

Apr 13, 2016
6:20:50am

spinner All-American

So basically, you report being assaulted, you're automatically referred to the Honor Code Office even if there's no indication that you actually did anything wrong. If this article is accurate, I agree 100% that Westerberg needs to lose her job as she seems to totally lack the empathy and tact that somebody in her position needs, but I also think the whole administration needs to completely rethink how these cases are handled.

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spinner

Bio page: spinner
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Messages

Author

Time

And the other shoe drops...

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 5:12am

It's disheartening to treat victims in that manner. They shouldn't be punished

tebowned

4/13/16 5:27am

I would feel bad if she lost her job for enforcing a policy that she had no

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 5:36am

What evidence is there that anyone has been punished for being raped?

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 5:51am

Read about Brooke

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:33am

To be precise, she was punished for dropping acid, not for being raped

BYUCoug11

4/13/16 7:31am

since when did drug use

warp

4/13/16 7:38am

I made no comment on the severity of the punishment. That's another discussion

BYUCoug11

4/13/16 8:01am

Exactly

Coog4Life

4/13/16 7:55am

Westerberg should be terminated immediately

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:24am

there's no place for this kind of talk IMO

gmj81

4/13/16 6:50am

There is always a place for this kind of talk. It's here and now.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:51am

cause for termination of someone who did nothing wrong?

gmj81

4/13/16 6:57am

She didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 7:01am

Then Westerberg had better start telling her side now. Doesn't look good here.

Squeegee

4/13/16 7:12am

Why? To satisfy clamoring masses? No, any organization of this kind will

gmj81

4/13/16 9:13am

Then Carrie should say something. BYU has been accused of punishing victims.

Squeegee

4/13/16 9:14am

I'm afraid of what Carrie will say...

jayriggity

4/13/16 9:30am

It's fair to note, that true or not-

RedlandsCoug

4/13/16 10:28am

<< Deleted >>

Northwest Cougar

4/13/16 11:07am

If the quotes are accurate? Yes there is.

TheHop

4/13/16 6:56am

Do you not see the irony in your post? You're making broad conclusions based on hearsay...

Byron McNertney

4/13/16 7:31am

I see the irony.

TheHop

4/13/16 7:43am

Hypocrisy rings loud and clear when you hit it with the hammer of indignation.

YSMACK

4/13/16 11:21am

I don't think anyone would disagree that victims shouldn't be punished...

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 5:49am

The title IX office and Honor Code office should not be married together

Saxa

4/13/16 5:59am

But just because the HC is involved doesn't indicate guilt...

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 6:14am

I agree with your statement in principal, unfortunately

Saxa

4/13/16 6:53am

I think appropriate policy maybe…

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 7:12am

SVU (and every other university in America) has already answered your question

jayriggity

4/13/16 7:36am

The stories of Madeline and "Emily" are by far the most troubling

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 9:01am

This is a huge black eye on the school

Cougarealist

4/13/16 5:50am

Whether or not you agree with BYU's current practices

SJS

4/13/16 7:13am

It sounds horrible. But I'll wait to hear something from a credible source before I give my opinion.

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 8:43am

What is your opinion of the source not being credible

Cougarealist

4/13/16 9:25am

It's the Trib. Enough said. When we hear the complete story with all the facts, I'll weigh in.

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 9:58am

RE: It's the Trib. Enough said. When we hear the complete story with all the

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:00am

This not tied to religion? Do you really trust them to be able to distinguish

gmj81

4/13/16 10:21am

You probably don't read the crime section of the several state and local papers

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:33am

They didn't report a crime. They spent several months finding cases at BYU who were willing to voice

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 10:24am

First, they didn't spend "several months" gathering stories

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:30am

In sum, I'm waiting for more info to come out on a heated issue. You reached a conclusion before this story came out

Cochise Cat

4/13/16 10:36am

LOL

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 10:38am

You are the lone person using emotion here

Cougarealist

4/13/16 1:48pm

How much do you really know about the HCO? You are throwing out Gestapo like

Real G Man

4/13/16 11:03am

RE: How much do you really know about the HCO? You are throwing out Gestapo like

BYUtiful

4/13/16 11:20am

This is a damaging article. Westerberg probably just lost her job =(

Saxa

4/13/16 5:57am

this is complex - I'm undecided. But you're saying - do drugs and get raped then you get to stay in school. Do drugs

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:06am

That's quite a leap saying they're getting rewarded by getting assaulted

IGlowInTheDark

4/13/16 6:09am

agreed - and actually was editing my post while you were typing this

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:11am

I don't know why it's damaging it's a very real part of the discussion

gmj81

4/13/16 6:36am

BYU has every right and opportunity to defend themselves in this discussion

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:52am

uh, no they can't. the students have rights to privacy.

gmj81

4/13/16 7:07am

They can defend the policy without discussing individual case specifics

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:11am

I would argue that it may be hard to defend a policy without specifics.

gmj81

4/13/16 7:22am

I'm saying divorce title IX from the Honor Code.

Saxa

4/13/16 6:09am

why

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:11am

RE: why

Saxa

4/13/16 6:55am

Title Nine, not Four (IX, not IV)

Left Shark Coug

4/13/16 6:19am

Yes, thank you

Saxa

4/13/16 6:43am

Honor Code policies will protect students from harm

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:25am

"one might say the student has suffered consequences for rule breaking"

spinner

4/13/16 6:35am

So Honor Code breakers deserve to be assaulted. Got it.

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:39am

Common sense is dead in this country. Got it

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:47am

You want to compare buying drugs in Baltimore with being in someone's apartment

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:51am

No one is going to be expelled from school for violating curfew

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:54am

More victim blaming. Genius.

jbcoug

4/13/16 6:59am

That's right all that counsel I give my daughters is victim blaming

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:11am

There's a difference between counseling girls and women to exercise caution

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:19am

You are the ones saying this!!!!!

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:20am

There's a huge difference between proactive counsel and reactive victin blaming.

joelvandyne

4/13/16 7:54am

Maybe you should look at how many people disagree with you and then think again about...

BengalCougar

4/13/16 11:09am

That doesn't seem to be a very good defense.

gmj81

4/13/16 11:48am

So if someone gets high or drunk and they get raped, you think they had it coming and deserved it...

BengalCougar

4/13/16 11:05am

No one deserves to be harmed by another person

Busiturtle

4/13/16 11:14am

<< Deleted >>

Baron

4/13/16 6:57am

The people in the story weren't breaking the honor code and were still

Baron

4/13/16 6:58am

And we know this how?

gmj81

4/13/16 7:25am

Are you serious? It is clear you have some connection to this because of your

Baron

4/13/16 7:31am

Illegal drugs are a minor infraction?

gmj81

4/13/16 8:06am

For you people voting thumbs down

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:00am

Lol ... You discussing self-righteousness

coolcats

4/13/16 7:03am

So the girl that was raped in a bathroom or who was raped at the scenic overlook

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 7:50am

I just don't understand why an investigation alone is so harmful.

gmj81

4/13/16 8:07am

Because it creates an disincentive to reporting. Plain and simple.

jayriggity

4/13/16 8:15am

Because the HC doesnt have a good public track record with their "invesigations"

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 8:15am

Holy cow.

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 9:03am

This is the one time I wish I were a MOD, just to delete this post.

El Fuego

4/13/16 10:16am

He deserves to be shamed for it

DapperDan

4/13/16 10:20am

I'm now decided. Any policy that discourages future victims of rape from reporting the rapist

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:36am

Seems like "being raped" is a pretty good punishment for doing drugs. Maybe some mercy is needed?

Finngirl

4/13/16 10:29am

You assume there was no mercy given.

gmj81

4/13/16 10:39am

I have no idea if mercy was given. Just pointing out to the posters on the thread that perhaps in these

Finngirl

4/13/16 10:45am

I agree. If this reporting is accurate, there needs to be changes.

Ashtrash

4/13/16 12:06pm

Even worse, it seems to be policy that any assault is reported

spinner

4/13/16 6:20am

no indication? the individual was involved in sexual activity and is making

gmj81

4/13/16 6:47am

Any report gets investigated by the Honor Code Office

spinner

4/13/16 7:04am

I won't defend the policy per se but I can understand it.

gmj81

4/13/16 10:46am

Wait, being raped is NOT an honor code violation

spinner

4/13/16 10:52am

Correct. But gmj81's statement is also correct: we don't know why the HC gets

jayriggity

4/13/16 10:57am

Calm down, you misread my post. I realize a rape is not an infraction

gmj81

4/13/16 11:03am

OK I'm calm, but I still think what you suggest is terrible

spinner

4/13/16 11:13am

To be clear, that scenario was a hypothetical to see where people

gmj81

4/13/16 11:54am

I don't know how you investigate the perp and not the victim.

Eddie

4/13/16 12:03pm

The HCO doesnt need to investigate. Let the police do it.

concolor couguar

4/13/16 12:09pm

Actually, I agree.

Eddie

4/13/16 12:13pm

The police should only report it if the girls asks them to

concolor couguar

4/13/16 12:19pm

Are the police the ones that kick the rapist off campus? At some point the HCO

gmj81

4/13/16 12:26pm

Easy the police charge with rape kick them off campus

concolor couguar

4/13/16 12:28pm

There are very different levels of evidence that have to be considered.

Eddie

4/13/16 1:20pm

I dont know how you got to that point.

concolor couguar

4/13/16 1:39pm

If the police are the only ones who ever hear/know about sexual assault...

Eddie

4/13/16 1:47pm

and you disagree with letting the victim make the call on going further?

concolor couguar

4/13/16 1:50pm

No.

Eddie

4/13/16 2:14pm

I'm fine with another organization getting involved with the victims consent

concolor couguar

4/13/16 2:23pm

Being the victim of a crime does not eliminate accountability

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:12am

the problem though is that if we kick her out of school then no girl in her situation would report the rape and the

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:19am

Thoughts?

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:26am

I don't like the idea of giving predators a road map of how to rape

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:31am

people aren't kicked out of school for missing curfew by a minute

The Shazad

4/13/16 6:36am

The point is the predator in that scenario

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:46am

that's not something that gets people kicked out of school either

The Shazad

4/13/16 7:10am

Error on the side of ensuring known rapists never set foot on campus again.

LunchTime

4/13/16 7:16am

as for erring on the side of punishing....

The Shazad

4/13/16 7:41am

There are a lot of straw men being thrown around about the honor code. People

runnincoug

4/13/16 7:57am

how about making sure these girls aren't ignorant

Y05

4/13/16 6:56am

I've never been in a hostile situation like this

Coog4Life

4/13/16 7:02am

What about this one:

RedlandsCoug

4/13/16 10:53am

That's a worthwhile risk in order to ensure

Cougarealist

4/13/16 6:32am

I could not disagree more. Far greater harm is done to society when innocent

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:41am

Holy cow, literally can't believe I'm reading this

Coog4Life

4/13/16 6:47am

Absolutely serious

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:50am

You might say that a man being accused of rape

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:47am

in a false accusation case at least it gets to a hearing - in a "you're kicked out of school guarantee" then the rapist

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:34am

I have two boys, I do not want a policy that would encourage them being falsely

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:42am

Then tell them not to have sex with girls. Problem solved.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:49am

Who said any sex occurred

Busiturtle

4/13/16 6:52am

They were drinking at a party with strippers. That's an honor code violation too

Linescratcher

4/13/16 6:56am

Uh couldn't that be said of the victims you're defending too?

gmj81

4/13/16 8:13am

I'm glad you're close to getting my point.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:21am

wow - you're on meltdown man - you really should stop tying.

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:53am

I have two girls. I don't want a policy that will encourage them to not report

Squeegee

4/13/16 7:10am

If they were to be assaulted would you discourage them from making a report

Busiturtle

4/13/16 7:12am

No. I want people to take responsibility for their actions. I want them to know

Squeegee

4/13/16 7:21am

Well your boys shouldnt be in situations where rape can occur isnt that your

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 7:56am

i don't see why it is so hard for everyone to separate the two

Y05

4/13/16 6:45am

the reality is this - if you expel her - she won't report and the rapist stays on campus and goes unpunished. It's a

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 6:55am

and if honor code violations go unpunished, then the HC

Y05

4/13/16 6:58am

Let me get this straight. You argue that the Honor Code is lone thing that is

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 7:59am

no not the lone thing

Y05

4/13/16 1:11pm

as would drinking, underage drinking,

Y05

4/13/16 1:13pm

The solution is simple. In the case of a rape with drugs don't kick the victim

Bert609

4/13/16 6:47am

BYU really needs to re-think how it looks at this issue, this is terrible

spinner

4/13/16 6:14am

serious issue but I would caution anyone from using a one sided trib piece

gmj81

4/13/16 6:33am

I love BYU, but they should get raked over the coals for this

Paco

4/13/16 6:41am

I agree on the Trib. But many of us believe the HC is broken. That's WHY it's

Bert609

4/13/16 7:07am

The trib is horrible for religion and sports, but their crime reporting is the

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 7:51am

This. it sounds like BYU needs to address this policy, but let's not jump to

runnincoug

4/13/16 8:01am

Yeah, it's not like anyone's using an unbiased piece by Desnews or KSL

DapperDan

4/13/16 8:24am

If that doesn't get fixed I'm not sure my wife will let our kids go to BYU

Paco

4/13/16 6:36am

... Or continue donating

Paco

4/13/16 6:37am

It's safer at Utah

maxpowers

4/13/16 6:42am

Ya. We won't let our kids even look at the neighbors b/c there's misconduct...

whirl

4/13/16 7:07am

Does Carri Jenkins ever get dizzy with all the spinning?

OpusX

4/13/16 6:46am

This. There's a reason White House press secretaries cycle so frequently

SJS

4/13/16 7:05am

Once the police are involved, frankly, the Honor Code office needs to step aside

Squeegee

4/13/16 6:52am

How would God judge these people? you break the rules that lead to something bad

bald man

4/13/16 6:52am

so let God judge. the question is.... is it a good policy to expel a girl who reports her rape and admits to an honor

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 7:04am

I'm not arguing for or against byu's honor code in this. I'm just wondering how

bald man

4/13/16 7:15am

Pretend you're God .. one of your daughters just got raped for 45 minutes.... how are you going to react towards her?

HarlemCoug

4/13/16 7:26am

so, if they spent 10 years in drugs, sex with tons of partners

bald man

4/13/16 7:34am

Change can happen in an instant. Let God sort it out, not the honor code office.

PharmCoug

4/13/16 8:23am

Bingo! We SHOULD try to judge these people the way God would.

Bert609

4/13/16 7:06am

Better question: how would Christ treat rape victims who are BYU students?

SJS

4/13/16 7:06am

By casting stones. Big ones.

Bert609

4/13/16 7:08am

So, if I sin and that leads to suffering something awful, that's my punishment

bald man

4/13/16 7:16am

If you'd like to explain how repentance for sin involves the HC office

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:21am

Again, I'm not talking about the HC. that is not an ecclasiastical organization

bald man

4/13/16 7:36am

Repentance is different than punishment. In many situations adding

Bert609

4/13/16 7:21am

Thank you for actually reading and understanding my posts. And that is a great

bald man

4/13/16 7:38am

HC doesn't need to fill that role.

LunchTime

4/13/16 7:22am

Ok, I'll bite. I'll finally answer the HC involvement.

bald man

4/13/16 7:40am

Maybe you and your bishop could handle it? Not the HC office?

SJS

4/13/16 7:22am

oh, I agree that the handling of sins should be between you and bishop but

bald man

4/13/16 7:42am

Its a good thing Christ never talked to a woman taken in adultery cuz theres no

monkeycowboy

4/13/16 8:02am

He would treat her small transgression (acid for example) like he did the

tebowned

4/13/16 3:51pm

God would overturn every table in the HC office.

Linescratcher

4/13/16 7:09am

So you're saying the brethren are just uninspired at this point?

gmj81

4/13/16 8:15am

lol if you think criticizing HC is criticizing the brethren. what a joke

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:21am

you know this because you work in the HC? or it just fits your world view?

bald man

4/13/16 8:17am

so my speculation about what god would do is invalid because i don't work in HCO

Linescratcher

4/13/16 8:20am

Your logic has holes in it a mile wide.

bald man

4/13/16 8:27am

Got it. So you were just wondering what god would do

Linescratcher

4/13/16 9:00am

Wow, you have issues.

bald man

4/13/16 10:35am

Yes, let's let the honor code office think they are God in the instance of

cougarnerd

4/13/16 8:02am

I DON'T KNOW DUDE MAYBE GETTING RAPED IS PUNISHMENT ENOUGH WHAT DO YOU THINK

SPORTS

4/13/16 8:52am

If it's a legitimate rape...

Polecat

4/13/16 12:39pm

Fairly and compassionately.

JoeyJoeJoeJr

4/13/16 9:41am

Partner can't restrain themselves? Yes they can, every time.

Polecat

4/13/16 11:52am

After reading the quotes.....

TheHop

4/13/16 6:54am

Proof? There is a lot in this story, but what "proof" are you claiming this

UNLVcougar

4/13/16 7:13am

It's amazing that people are still defending the HC and the HC office

uberslacker

4/13/16 7:18am

In the end, this is going to lead to a government investigation

jbcoug

4/13/16 7:40am

<< Deleted >>

cvd6262

4/13/16 7:48am

Sadly this isn't a new story and I don't believe it is just "trib reporting"

SweetBabyG

4/13/16 7:44am

Retracted

bluebloodedcoug

4/13/16 7:55am

I knew the article was credible before it was published.

SweetBabyG

4/13/16 8:07am

The link to this story just went up on the Trib's Facebook page

jbcoug

4/13/16 9:35am

This is going to be a huge black eye. National media will pick it up as well.

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