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Apr 13, 2016
9:35
:14
am
jbcoug
All-American
The link to this story just went up on the Trib's Facebook page
Prepare for the oncoming tidal wave.
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jbcoug
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CommodoreCoug
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jbcoug
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Aug 13, 2003
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Jan 23, 2018
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Messages
Author
Time
And the other shoe drops...
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 5:12am
It's disheartening to treat victims in that manner. They shouldn't be punished
tebowned
4/13/16 5:27am
I would feel bad if she lost her job for enforcing a policy that she had no
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 5:36am
What evidence is there that anyone has been punished for being raped?
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 5:51am
Read about Brooke
Coog4Life
4/13/16 6:33am
To be precise, she was punished for dropping acid, not for being raped
BYUCoug11
4/13/16 7:31am
since when did drug use
warp
4/13/16 7:38am
I made no comment on the severity of the punishment. That's another discussion
BYUCoug11
4/13/16 8:01am
Exactly
Coog4Life
4/13/16 7:55am
Westerberg should be terminated immediately
Coog4Life
4/13/16 6:24am
there's no place for this kind of talk IMO
gmj81
4/13/16 6:50am
There is always a place for this kind of talk. It's here and now.
Linescratcher
4/13/16 6:51am
cause for termination of someone who did nothing wrong?
gmj81
4/13/16 6:57am
She didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.
Linescratcher
4/13/16 7:01am
Then Westerberg had better start telling her side now. Doesn't look good here.
Squeegee
4/13/16 7:12am
Why? To satisfy clamoring masses? No, any organization of this kind will
gmj81
4/13/16 9:13am
Then Carrie should say something. BYU has been accused of punishing victims.
Squeegee
4/13/16 9:14am
I'm afraid of what Carrie will say...
jayriggity
4/13/16 9:30am
It's fair to note, that true or not-
RedlandsCoug
4/13/16 10:28am
<< Deleted >>
Northwest Cougar
4/13/16 11:07am
If the quotes are accurate? Yes there is.
TheHop
4/13/16 6:56am
Do you not see the irony in your post? You're making broad conclusions based on hearsay...
Byron McNertney
4/13/16 7:31am
I see the irony.
TheHop
4/13/16 7:43am
Hypocrisy rings loud and clear when you hit it with the hammer of indignation.
YSMACK
4/13/16 11:21am
I don't think anyone would disagree that victims shouldn't be punished...
IGlowInTheDark
4/13/16 5:49am
The title IX office and Honor Code office should not be married together
Saxa
4/13/16 5:59am
But just because the HC is involved doesn't indicate guilt...
IGlowInTheDark
4/13/16 6:14am
I agree with your statement in principal, unfortunately
Saxa
4/13/16 6:53am
I think appropriate policy maybe…
IGlowInTheDark
4/13/16 7:12am
SVU (and every other university in America) has already answered your question
jayriggity
4/13/16 7:36am
The stories of Madeline and "Emily" are by far the most troubling
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 9:01am
This is a huge black eye on the school
Cougarealist
4/13/16 5:50am
Whether or not you agree with BYU's current practices
SJS
4/13/16 7:13am
It sounds horrible. But I'll wait to hear something from a credible source before I give my opinion.
Cochise Cat
4/13/16 8:43am
What is your opinion of the source not being credible
Cougarealist
4/13/16 9:25am
It's the Trib. Enough said. When we hear the complete story with all the facts, I'll weigh in.
Cochise Cat
4/13/16 9:58am
RE: It's the Trib. Enough said. When we hear the complete story with all the
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 10:00am
This not tied to religion? Do you really trust them to be able to distinguish
gmj81
4/13/16 10:21am
You probably don't read the crime section of the several state and local papers
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 10:33am
They didn't report a crime. They spent several months finding cases at BYU who were willing to voice
Cochise Cat
4/13/16 10:24am
First, they didn't spend "several months" gathering stories
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 10:30am
In sum, I'm waiting for more info to come out on a heated issue. You reached a conclusion before this story came out
Cochise Cat
4/13/16 10:36am
LOL
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 10:38am
You are the lone person using emotion here
Cougarealist
4/13/16 1:48pm
How much do you really know about the HCO? You are throwing out Gestapo like
Real G Man
4/13/16 11:03am
RE: How much do you really know about the HCO? You are throwing out Gestapo like
BYUtiful
4/13/16 11:20am
This is a damaging article. Westerberg probably just lost her job =(
Saxa
4/13/16 5:57am
this is complex - I'm undecided. But you're saying - do drugs and get raped then you get to stay in school. Do drugs
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:06am
That's quite a leap saying they're getting rewarded by getting assaulted
IGlowInTheDark
4/13/16 6:09am
agreed - and actually was editing my post while you were typing this
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:11am
I don't know why it's damaging it's a very real part of the discussion
gmj81
4/13/16 6:36am
BYU has every right and opportunity to defend themselves in this discussion
jbcoug
4/13/16 6:52am
uh, no they can't. the students have rights to privacy.
gmj81
4/13/16 7:07am
They can defend the policy without discussing individual case specifics
jbcoug
4/13/16 7:11am
I would argue that it may be hard to defend a policy without specifics.
gmj81
4/13/16 7:22am
I'm saying divorce title IX from the Honor Code.
Saxa
4/13/16 6:09am
why
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:11am
RE: why
Saxa
4/13/16 6:55am
Title Nine, not Four (IX, not IV)
Left Shark Coug
4/13/16 6:19am
Yes, thank you
Saxa
4/13/16 6:43am
Honor Code policies will protect students from harm
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:25am
"one might say the student has suffered consequences for rule breaking"
spinner
4/13/16 6:35am
So Honor Code breakers deserve to be assaulted. Got it.
jbcoug
4/13/16 6:39am
Common sense is dead in this country. Got it
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:47am
You want to compare buying drugs in Baltimore with being in someone's apartment
jbcoug
4/13/16 6:51am
No one is going to be expelled from school for violating curfew
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:54am
More victim blaming. Genius.
jbcoug
4/13/16 6:59am
That's right all that counsel I give my daughters is victim blaming
Busiturtle
4/13/16 7:11am
There's a difference between counseling girls and women to exercise caution
jbcoug
4/13/16 7:19am
You are the ones saying this!!!!!
Busiturtle
4/13/16 7:20am
There's a huge difference between proactive counsel and reactive victin blaming.
joelvandyne
4/13/16 7:54am
Maybe you should look at how many people disagree with you and then think again about...
BengalCougar
4/13/16 11:09am
That doesn't seem to be a very good defense.
gmj81
4/13/16 11:48am
So if someone gets high or drunk and they get raped, you think they had it coming and deserved it...
BengalCougar
4/13/16 11:05am
No one deserves to be harmed by another person
Busiturtle
4/13/16 11:14am
<< Deleted >>
Baron
4/13/16 6:57am
The people in the story weren't breaking the honor code and were still
Baron
4/13/16 6:58am
And we know this how?
gmj81
4/13/16 7:25am
Are you serious? It is clear you have some connection to this because of your
Baron
4/13/16 7:31am
Illegal drugs are a minor infraction?
gmj81
4/13/16 8:06am
For you people voting thumbs down
Busiturtle
4/13/16 7:00am
Lol ... You discussing self-righteousness
coolcats
4/13/16 7:03am
So the girl that was raped in a bathroom or who was raped at the scenic overlook
monkeycowboy
4/13/16 7:50am
I just don't understand why an investigation alone is so harmful.
gmj81
4/13/16 8:07am
Because it creates an disincentive to reporting. Plain and simple.
jayriggity
4/13/16 8:15am
Because the HC doesnt have a good public track record with their "invesigations"
monkeycowboy
4/13/16 8:15am
Holy cow.
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 9:03am
This is the one time I wish I were a MOD, just to delete this post.
El Fuego
4/13/16 10:16am
He deserves to be shamed for it
DapperDan
4/13/16 10:20am
I'm now decided. Any policy that discourages future victims of rape from reporting the rapist
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:36am
Seems like "being raped" is a pretty good punishment for doing drugs. Maybe some mercy is needed?
Finngirl
4/13/16 10:29am
You assume there was no mercy given.
gmj81
4/13/16 10:39am
I have no idea if mercy was given. Just pointing out to the posters on the thread that perhaps in these
Finngirl
4/13/16 10:45am
I agree. If this reporting is accurate, there needs to be changes.
Ashtrash
4/13/16 12:06pm
Even worse, it seems to be policy that any assault is reported
spinner
4/13/16 6:20am
no indication? the individual was involved in sexual activity and is making
gmj81
4/13/16 6:47am
Any report gets investigated by the Honor Code Office
spinner
4/13/16 7:04am
I won't defend the policy per se but I can understand it.
gmj81
4/13/16 10:46am
Wait, being raped is NOT an honor code violation
spinner
4/13/16 10:52am
Correct. But gmj81's statement is also correct: we don't know why the HC gets
jayriggity
4/13/16 10:57am
Calm down, you misread my post. I realize a rape is not an infraction
gmj81
4/13/16 11:03am
OK I'm calm, but I still think what you suggest is terrible
spinner
4/13/16 11:13am
To be clear, that scenario was a hypothetical to see where people
gmj81
4/13/16 11:54am
I don't know how you investigate the perp and not the victim.
Eddie
4/13/16 12:03pm
The HCO doesnt need to investigate. Let the police do it.
concolor couguar
4/13/16 12:09pm
Actually, I agree.
Eddie
4/13/16 12:13pm
The police should only report it if the girls asks them to
concolor couguar
4/13/16 12:19pm
Are the police the ones that kick the rapist off campus? At some point the HCO
gmj81
4/13/16 12:26pm
Easy the police charge with rape kick them off campus
concolor couguar
4/13/16 12:28pm
There are very different levels of evidence that have to be considered.
Eddie
4/13/16 1:20pm
I dont know how you got to that point.
concolor couguar
4/13/16 1:39pm
If the police are the only ones who ever hear/know about sexual assault...
Eddie
4/13/16 1:47pm
and you disagree with letting the victim make the call on going further?
concolor couguar
4/13/16 1:50pm
No.
Eddie
4/13/16 2:14pm
I'm fine with another organization getting involved with the victims consent
concolor couguar
4/13/16 2:23pm
Being the victim of a crime does not eliminate accountability
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:12am
the problem though is that if we kick her out of school then no girl in her situation would report the rape and the
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:19am
Thoughts?
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:26am
I don't like the idea of giving predators a road map of how to rape
Coog4Life
4/13/16 6:31am
people aren't kicked out of school for missing curfew by a minute
The Shazad
4/13/16 6:36am
The point is the predator in that scenario
Coog4Life
4/13/16 6:46am
that's not something that gets people kicked out of school either
The Shazad
4/13/16 7:10am
Error on the side of ensuring known rapists never set foot on campus again.
LunchTime
4/13/16 7:16am
as for erring on the side of punishing....
The Shazad
4/13/16 7:41am
There are a lot of straw men being thrown around about the honor code. People
runnincoug
4/13/16 7:57am
how about making sure these girls aren't ignorant
Y05
4/13/16 6:56am
I've never been in a hostile situation like this
Coog4Life
4/13/16 7:02am
What about this one:
RedlandsCoug
4/13/16 10:53am
That's a worthwhile risk in order to ensure
Cougarealist
4/13/16 6:32am
I could not disagree more. Far greater harm is done to society when innocent
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:41am
Holy cow, literally can't believe I'm reading this
Coog4Life
4/13/16 6:47am
Absolutely serious
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:50am
You might say that a man being accused of rape
Linescratcher
4/13/16 6:47am
in a false accusation case at least it gets to a hearing - in a "you're kicked out of school guarantee" then the rapist
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:34am
I have two boys, I do not want a policy that would encourage them being falsely
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:42am
Then tell them not to have sex with girls. Problem solved.
Linescratcher
4/13/16 6:49am
Who said any sex occurred
Busiturtle
4/13/16 6:52am
They were drinking at a party with strippers. That's an honor code violation too
Linescratcher
4/13/16 6:56am
Uh couldn't that be said of the victims you're defending too?
gmj81
4/13/16 8:13am
I'm glad you're close to getting my point.
Linescratcher
4/13/16 8:21am
wow - you're on meltdown man - you really should stop tying.
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:53am
I have two girls. I don't want a policy that will encourage them to not report
Squeegee
4/13/16 7:10am
If they were to be assaulted would you discourage them from making a report
Busiturtle
4/13/16 7:12am
No. I want people to take responsibility for their actions. I want them to know
Squeegee
4/13/16 7:21am
Well your boys shouldnt be in situations where rape can occur isnt that your
monkeycowboy
4/13/16 7:56am
i don't see why it is so hard for everyone to separate the two
Y05
4/13/16 6:45am
the reality is this - if you expel her - she won't report and the rapist stays on campus and goes unpunished. It's a
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 6:55am
and if honor code violations go unpunished, then the HC
Y05
4/13/16 6:58am
Let me get this straight. You argue that the Honor Code is lone thing that is
monkeycowboy
4/13/16 7:59am
no not the lone thing
Y05
4/13/16 1:11pm
as would drinking, underage drinking,
Y05
4/13/16 1:13pm
The solution is simple. In the case of a rape with drugs don't kick the victim
Bert609
4/13/16 6:47am
BYU really needs to re-think how it looks at this issue, this is terrible
spinner
4/13/16 6:14am
serious issue but I would caution anyone from using a one sided trib piece
gmj81
4/13/16 6:33am
I love BYU, but they should get raked over the coals for this
Paco
4/13/16 6:41am
I agree on the Trib. But many of us believe the HC is broken. That's WHY it's
Bert609
4/13/16 7:07am
The trib is horrible for religion and sports, but their crime reporting is the
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 7:51am
This. it sounds like BYU needs to address this policy, but let's not jump to
runnincoug
4/13/16 8:01am
Yeah, it's not like anyone's using an unbiased piece by Desnews or KSL
DapperDan
4/13/16 8:24am
If that doesn't get fixed I'm not sure my wife will let our kids go to BYU
Paco
4/13/16 6:36am
... Or continue donating
Paco
4/13/16 6:37am
It's safer at Utah
maxpowers
4/13/16 6:42am
Ya. We won't let our kids even look at the neighbors b/c there's misconduct...
whirl
4/13/16 7:07am
Does Carri Jenkins ever get dizzy with all the spinning?
OpusX
4/13/16 6:46am
This. There's a reason White House press secretaries cycle so frequently
SJS
4/13/16 7:05am
Once the police are involved, frankly, the Honor Code office needs to step aside
Squeegee
4/13/16 6:52am
How would God judge these people? you break the rules that lead to something bad
bald man
4/13/16 6:52am
so let God judge. the question is.... is it a good policy to expel a girl who reports her rape and admits to an honor
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 7:04am
I'm not arguing for or against byu's honor code in this. I'm just wondering how
bald man
4/13/16 7:15am
Pretend you're God .. one of your daughters just got raped for 45 minutes.... how are you going to react towards her?
HarlemCoug
4/13/16 7:26am
so, if they spent 10 years in drugs, sex with tons of partners
bald man
4/13/16 7:34am
Change can happen in an instant. Let God sort it out, not the honor code office.
PharmCoug
4/13/16 8:23am
Bingo! We SHOULD try to judge these people the way God would.
Bert609
4/13/16 7:06am
Better question: how would Christ treat rape victims who are BYU students?
SJS
4/13/16 7:06am
By casting stones. Big ones.
Bert609
4/13/16 7:08am
So, if I sin and that leads to suffering something awful, that's my punishment
bald man
4/13/16 7:16am
If you'd like to explain how repentance for sin involves the HC office
jbcoug
4/13/16 7:21am
Again, I'm not talking about the HC. that is not an ecclasiastical organization
bald man
4/13/16 7:36am
Repentance is different than punishment. In many situations adding
Bert609
4/13/16 7:21am
Thank you for actually reading and understanding my posts. And that is a great
bald man
4/13/16 7:38am
HC doesn't need to fill that role.
LunchTime
4/13/16 7:22am
Ok, I'll bite. I'll finally answer the HC involvement.
bald man
4/13/16 7:40am
Maybe you and your bishop could handle it? Not the HC office?
SJS
4/13/16 7:22am
oh, I agree that the handling of sins should be between you and bishop but
bald man
4/13/16 7:42am
Its a good thing Christ never talked to a woman taken in adultery cuz theres no
monkeycowboy
4/13/16 8:02am
He would treat her small transgression (acid for example) like he did the
tebowned
4/13/16 3:51pm
God would overturn every table in the HC office.
Linescratcher
4/13/16 7:09am
So you're saying the brethren are just uninspired at this point?
gmj81
4/13/16 8:15am
lol if you think criticizing HC is criticizing the brethren. what a joke
Linescratcher
4/13/16 8:21am
you know this because you work in the HC? or it just fits your world view?
bald man
4/13/16 8:17am
so my speculation about what god would do is invalid because i don't work in HCO
Linescratcher
4/13/16 8:20am
Your logic has holes in it a mile wide.
bald man
4/13/16 8:27am
Got it. So you were just wondering what god would do
Linescratcher
4/13/16 9:00am
Wow, you have issues.
bald man
4/13/16 10:35am
Yes, let's let the honor code office think they are God in the instance of
cougarnerd
4/13/16 8:02am
I'm sure God is very worried about how late someone was in an apartment when they are raped
Deleted
4/13/16 8:21am
I DON'T KNOW DUDE MAYBE GETTING RAPED IS PUNISHMENT ENOUGH WHAT DO YOU THINK
SPORTS
4/13/16 8:52am
If it's a legitimate rape...
Polecat
4/13/16 12:39pm
Fairly and compassionately.
JoeyJoeJoeJr
4/13/16 9:41am
Partner can't restrain themselves? Yes they can, every time.
Polecat
4/13/16 11:52am
After reading the quotes.....
TheHop
4/13/16 6:54am
Proof? There is a lot in this story, but what "proof" are you claiming this
UNLVcougar
4/13/16 7:13am
It's amazing that people are still defending the HC and the HC office
uberslacker
4/13/16 7:18am
In the end, this is going to lead to a government investigation
jbcoug
4/13/16 7:40am
<< Deleted >>
cvd6262
4/13/16 7:48am
Sadly this isn't a new story and I don't believe it is just "trib reporting"
SweetBabyG
4/13/16 7:44am
Retracted
bluebloodedcoug
4/13/16 7:55am
I knew the article was credible before it was published.
SweetBabyG
4/13/16 8:07am
Nevermind
Deleted
4/13/16 8:24am
I think he's saying he believes the article despite the Trib's reputation
jbcoug
4/13/16 8:27am
He's not attacking the article.
Linescratcher
4/13/16 8:27am
The link to this story just went up on the Trib's Facebook page
jbcoug
4/13/16 9:35am
This is going to be a huge black eye. National media will pick it up as well.
El Fuego
4/13/16 10:49am
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