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Jul 12, 2018
5:28
:57
pm
Lance71
All-American
Trust Bishops with the decision to determine eligibility? That's insane.
Do a search on CB of some of the behavior of Bishops. There's no way you want some of those guys making those decisions.
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Lance71
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Lance71
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Jun 2, 2008
Last login
Jun 20, 2024
Total posts
14,803 (45 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
BYU Football and the Honor Code Office - For what it is worth.
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/11/18 1:21pm
I would be curious to see where the percentages of violations lie. Anyone have a guess on
Zedhead
7/11/18 1:29pm
beards
Idahofallsblue
7/11/18 1:49pm
Not even close! X - Family feud. Good guess.
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/11/18 1:52pm
From my friend it is the most common things we would think: Drinking, drugs, and
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/11/18 1:51pm
Which is why we have Rambo hiding in the bushes with a camera.
panguitch
7/11/18 6:01pm
Did you mean the Salt Lake Tribune?
WJCougar
7/12/18 3:39pm
This does not make sense.
tmurphey44
7/11/18 9:30pm
I didn't not say that they only punish the kids when things are public. Way to
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/11/18 11:21pm
That's just reality tho. It's not wrong. Actions sometimes have far reaching
MormonThug
7/12/18 6:55am
It's not selective enforcement, it's selective punishment. The church does the exact same thing with
Radioactive Coug
7/12/18 10:24am
Whether it's selective punishment or enforcement...
tmurphey44
7/12/18 12:58pm
Obviously it appears you have no idea. The Church is not at all about saving
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/12/18 1:59pm
Not true the Church and BYU are extremly imgage conscious
kahuna
7/12/18 2:18pm
Radio, it is not selective punishment, having sat on many councils. The
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/12/18 1:08pm
As have I and I stand by my wording, unless you are talking about the BYU side.
Radioactive Coug
7/12/18 2:19pm
whoa, there's a leap
ArchbishopMitty
7/12/18 3:16pm
You're wrong - that's not the definition of hypocrisy. The definition is
MajorPain
7/12/18 3:24pm
So many people throw that word around when it doesn't apply...
ArchbishopMitty
7/12/18 6:03pm
So let's use your definition here:
tmurphey44
7/13/18 7:45am
LOL, that's like saying, since you believe killing people is wrong, you are a hypocrite if
Radioactive Coug
7/13/18 8:05am
That's a good point.
tmurphey44
7/13/18 10:29am
That's not at all what I was saying. While it may be true that protecting my family is more important than not
Radioactive Coug
7/13/18 12:35pm
Your argument is completely theoretically
tmurphey44
7/15/18 7:03am
So, would you be OK if it was a mandatory 1 year pregnant or not?
Radioactive Coug
7/16/18 2:20pm
Yes. It wouldn't be how I personally
tmurphey44
7/18/18 7:17am
Well of course they wouldn't say anything negative about their own office.
Lip Gallagher
7/11/18 1:54pm
The HC office is not trying to protect itself and does all that it can to help
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/11/18 11:24pm
His point is that your friend is drinking his own Koolaid. Of course he isn't
Yunit
7/12/18 8:26am
Does the honor code only apply when on campus/enrolled?
stealth
7/11/18 1:58pm
I think it applies to all students while enrolled @ BYU, not sure off campus?
GlasairCoug
7/11/18 2:09pm
Definitely applies off campus too
Odysseus
7/11/18 2:18pm
And this is a major fault and shortcoming.
Archaea
7/12/18 10:46am
Does this change if they start paying players and players become employees?
SUAVO
7/12/18 11:16am
Not sure, but not automatically. I know
Archaea
7/12/18 1:31pm
They are now expected to follow the HC 24/7 wherever they are. My wife is
Monomachos
7/12/18 2:37pm
Dumb rule.
Archaea
7/12/18 5:51pm
There is more and it has been discussed here many times. BYU is only hiring
Monomachos
7/12/18 7:21pm
Every student needs to fill out the 'Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement'
TheLost
7/11/18 2:28pm
That's all beside the point, IMO. The Honor Code Office needs to go.
SoCalCoug
7/11/18 2:25pm
Honest question: how would this work with kids who aren’t church members?
Croweater
7/12/18 6:15am
Same way it currently works. With their ecclesiastical leader. They have to
Yunit
7/12/18 8:27am
That puts way too much, and the wrong responsibilities on bishops
Big Papi
7/12/18 8:35am
Why does it need to go? The ecclesiastical endorsement is a condition of
vaquero
7/12/18 9:07am
Doesn't the ecclesiastical endorsement have to be renewed every year though?
Yunit
7/13/18 7:19am
Wow, what's with the liberals newfound interest in dismantling agencies/offices?
Iman23
7/12/18 12:42pm
As long as BYU is Church owned and subsidized,
semolinaPilchard
7/11/18 2:39pm
The ecclesiastical endorsement already sets it apart as a church school.
SoCalCoug
7/11/18 2:44pm
Inconsistently implemented. It leaves authority to individuals off campus
WhiteKnight
7/11/18 2:46pm
Ecclesiastical leaders for the church that owns the University.
SoCalCoug
7/11/18 3:00pm
I have a hard time believing you would be happy with the results when Bishops
Lance71
7/11/18 6:59pm
God would smite them down in a flash if they did that
Lip Gallagher
7/11/18 7:09pm
In Provo?
AntiSNOT
7/12/18 7:02am
An ecclesiastical leader has no authority to make decision about a students
TheLoneCougar
7/12/18 8:01am
Do you believe the university has standing to assess a student's moral standing?
SoCalCoug
7/12/18 12:19pm
Probably depends on the situation. But bottom line:
TheLoneCougar
7/12/18 12:35pm
Bishops are Judges in Israel. Let them judge.
SoCalCoug
7/12/18 12:47pm
The are spiritual judges. A person's education and schooling should not be part
TheLoneCougar
7/13/18 7:28am
But the students' adherence to church moral principles and commandments should
SoCalCoug
7/13/18 11:56am
I'm not sure the school is making such a judgement
dratax
7/13/18 12:14pm
Exactly my point. Bishops are judges in Israel over the spiritual lives of their
TheLoneCougar
7/13/18 12:24pm
On the other hand
dratax
7/13/18 3:33pm
Bad Idea, the results would vary drastically and even more people would be
Ghost
7/12/18 9:41am
Who is entitled to the spirit of discernment to determine whether a person is
SoCalCoug
7/12/18 12:22pm
Trust Bishops with the decision to determine eligibility? That's insane.
Lance71
7/12/18 5:28pm
As opposed to a bunch people in the HCO?
Archaea
7/12/18 5:52pm
A bunch of people is totally inaccurate. There is a small committee in charge.
Lance71
7/12/18 9:40pm
See answer below.
Archaea
7/15/18 6:19pm
"Those guys" who are ordained as judges in Israel, with the authority to
SoCalCoug
7/13/18 11:57am
Some important points to consider:
GlasairCoug
7/11/18 3:47pm
regarding governing themselves
dratax
7/11/18 4:34pm
Were they then kicked out of school?
FanofBYU
7/12/18 5:16pm
That doesn’t explain RMs like Ula
Coogar2
7/11/18 6:43pm
Players dig their own hole.. Stop blaming the HC
TheLost
7/11/18 7:06pm
Everything you said here is exactly right. Joe, Ula, and Francis were given
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/11/18 11:27pm
I agree
Coogar2
7/12/18 7:05am
It explains it all. Frequency, attitude, degree of penitence. He didn't
PhilPete
7/12/18 9:22am
I was brief. The position that a play enters BYU as a HS stud not
Coogar2
7/12/18 11:03am
Agee 187%
PhilPete
7/12/18 1:59pm
Those questions don't seem to line up with Brandon Davies situation.
Ned Schneebly
7/12/18 8:53am
How widespread is it, or how many people know about it?
Coug
7/12/18 9:15am
The point is that BYU tries to handle everything through BYU. If a student has
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/12/18 2:04pm
It's a factor in the equation, not the deciding factor, but a factor.
MormonThug
7/12/18 10:10pm
The primary reason why CB hates on the HC office is because of sports.
Machiavelli
7/12/18 9:25am
You say that like it's a bad thing. 🙂
Lip Gallagher
7/12/18 9:41am
I have close contacts who were kicked out of BYU by the HC office who were not
maxpowers
7/12/18 10:07am
That's like saying you hate the police because they gave your friend a ticket
Machiavelli
7/12/18 10:26am
You'd be crazy to think they haven't ever made some poor decisions.
Lip Gallagher
7/12/18 10:31am
Yeah of course they've made some bad decisions.
Machiavelli
7/12/18 11:46am
Student or Athlete... You sign the Honor Code contract before you attend.
TheLost
7/12/18 10:35am
Consequences are extremely subjective. Largely based on the bishop. Same mistake
maxpowers
7/12/18 10:45am
I 100% agree... but that issue is larger than just BYU
TheLost
7/12/18 10:54am
As a parent of two BYU students, this is how the HC seems to work...
TheLost
7/12/18 10:52am
I'd guess a good chunk of the time they might feel guilty
JuicyJam
7/12/18 12:32pm
Actually the HC office has too many jerks irrespective of sports.
Coogar2
7/12/18 11:03am
I dont know the HC Office employees personally
Machiavelli
7/12/18 11:50am
People wouldn't like it even if it didn't effect sports at all.
JuicyJam
7/12/18 12:28pm
Then they should probably not attend BYU.
Machiavelli
7/12/18 1:25pm
There are too many horror stories about how the HCO has delt with people.
JuicyJam
7/12/18 1:40pm
I was at BYU for 4 years (fairly recently) and no one within my social circle
Machiavelli
7/12/18 8:39pm
Cool. I and lots of other people did.
JuicyJam
7/12/18 9:30pm
Not much!
dodgersjazzcougs
7/12/18 10:43am
The HCO should not exist for social guideline violations, and this sentence
Archaea
7/12/18 10:45am
What bothers me about that sentence is:
dratax
7/12/18 10:52am
$$$
TheLost
7/12/18 11:07am
You took my post seriously? I need to be more over the top in the future
dratax
7/12/18 12:03pm
Irony is tricky on CB 🙂
TheLost
7/12/18 12:45pm
Right, but when summer violations cause them to lose ecclesiastical endorsement
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/12/18 2:06pm
If you are a non-member, I doubt you're going to lose your ecclesiastical
Archaea
7/12/18 5:50pm
Did you know that as a non-member you still need to have an endorsement?
BYU I Bleed Blue
7/12/18 9:15pm
That's super interesting that someone working at the HC office feels that way
fatcracker
7/12/18 12:06pm
Good summary. BYU does what it can to help students/athletes, but sometimes
ArchbishopMitty
7/12/18 3:11pm
So tired of all the honor code whining
MajorPain
7/12/18 3:33pm
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