Do you think that maybe your experience there has possibly clouded your

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May 22, 2019
12:22:54pm

macaroni All-American

judgment on this issue?

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macaroni

Bio page: macaroni
Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Last login: Feb 3, 2020
Total posts: 35,674 (12,962 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Germany vs Japan post WWII symbolism?

Xenon

5/21/19 8:41pm

Because the Japanese are "foreign"

kccougar

5/21/19 8:54pm

Plus, the German atrocities were actually more spectacular, and evil.

chilango

5/21/19 9:22pm

The rape of Nanking is about as horrifying of treatment towards other humans as

che flaco

5/21/19 9:33pm

It was horrible, but Auschwitz was worse. As were Treblinka and the other

chilango

5/21/19 9:36pm

Japanese atrocities were more personal. German were more industrial.

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 10:16pm

Sure but it is also more similar to the kinds of warfare tyrants and conquerors have engaged in for millennia

YIsForBrigham

5/22/19 9:33am

My opinion: because Germany is a European country and is part of the western

che flaco

5/21/19 8:54pm

There is something uniquely horrifying about Nazism

spinner

5/21/19 8:58pm

Agree with that, it is definitely uniquely horrifying and that is definitely

che flaco

5/21/19 9:02pm

Sure, but the gulags are also not unique

spinner

5/21/19 9:07pm

Fair enough

che flaco

5/21/19 9:10pm

As much as they were 'work' camps they were more grind em into dust

coug almighty

5/21/19 9:28pm

Plus the Nazis had more uniquely identifying symbols and institutions, whereas

Mike Honcho

5/21/19 9:34pm

Because as bad as the Japanese were, the Germans were worse. Probably the most

chilango

5/21/19 9:20pm

Wow, you need to listen to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History Podcast

Frank Drebin

5/21/19 9:27pm

No estimate of slaughter of civilians that I’ve ever seen puts Japan in the same

chilango

5/21/19 9:32pm

You are severely underestimating the sheer brutality of the Japanese in WW2.

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:37pm

No, I’m not. But many here severely underestimate the brutality of Germany under

chilango

5/21/19 9:39pm

The Japanese killed more people than the Nazis, in more personal and grousome

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:42pm

I think this article also provides a reason why we hear more about Hitler than

Mike Honcho

5/21/19 9:45pm

Interesting stat: 4% of US POWs in German custody died. 27% under Japanese

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:49pm

They definitely treated POWs worse than the Germans did. There’s no debate

chilango

5/21/19 9:52pm

The Japanese treated Western Allies’ POWs much worse than the Germans did

spinner

5/21/19 9:57pm

True, there was a big difference between Soviet POWs and Western ones. But even

chilango

5/21/19 10:03pm

Pretty much

spinner

5/21/19 10:07pm

An interesting tidbit, side note. The largest massacre of POW's on American soil

So it goes...

5/21/19 10:24pm

What an interesting, sad bit of history. I'd never heard of this incident.

spinner

5/22/19 6:42am

That's terrible.

HighHorse

5/22/19 9:21am

Look at the chart in this article, for perspective. The column titled “Civilian

chilango

5/21/19 9:49pm

Stop. They were both depraved and evil in their special ways. The Germans

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:53pm

Your own chart has 15-20 million Chinese dead compared to 6 million Poles.

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 10:00pm

You’re reading the wrong column. It’s 7.3-8.2 million Chinese civilians who were

chilango

5/21/19 10:06pm

So you’re not counting the 10M Chinese who were starved to death by the

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 10:09pm

Correct, also not counting the 10M Russians starved to death by the Germans, to

chilango

5/21/19 10:16pm

I get your point. I think you are more shocked by the depraved and calculated

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 10:21pm

Nope, what the Japanese did was every bit as premeditated, evil and large in

Frank Drebin

5/21/19 9:38pm

No, it wasn’t. Among other things, the Germans committed genocide on a planned,

chilango

5/21/19 9:40pm

Chilango, are you Japanese?

Mike Honcho

5/21/19 9:42pm

No. It just happens to be a topic on which I’m well informed. I lived in China,

chilango

5/21/19 9:52pm

You actually don’t seem that well informed.

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:56pm

Maybe that’s because you aren’t? Kind of like when evangelicals tell me I’m

chilango

5/21/19 9:59pm

Really strange analogy dude. Kinda weird.

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 10:01pm

You’re assuming others aren’t as well informed, which is probably not true

Mike Honcho

5/21/19 10:03pm

Being informed is besides the point, it’s weird to be so adamant that one

che flaco

5/21/19 10:16pm

Wow dude. Those are some troubling blinders.

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:43pm

I agree, lots of troubling blinders on this board.

chilango

5/21/19 9:55pm

<< Deleted >>

lightmann

5/21/19 10:55pm

The German people are a lot more repentant and regretful of their atrocities in

TriggerWarning

5/21/19 9:36pm

IIRC, Japanese war criminals weren’t even considered criminals in Japan after

Mike Honcho

5/21/19 9:41pm

I think this is accurate, in my experience.

chilango

5/21/19 9:41pm

Curious about that experience. How broad is it? My interactions with the

777

5/21/19 11:29pm

Not to American POWs. 17% died in German camps, almost 50% died in Japanese

CougarAndMerlin

5/21/19 11:48pm

Agree. OTOH, the Germans were genocidal, while the Japanese were not.

chilango

5/22/19 12:07am

<< Deleted >>

Dynasty1

5/22/19 7:03am

Reputationally, not in the war itself. And I said nothing about the Allies.

chilango

5/22/19 7:05am

They're the villains of every Hollywood movie. I think that 1933-1945 greatly

Dynasty1

5/22/19 7:29am

Which is why many people tend to go easier on them than they deserve. That and

chilango

5/22/19 7:42am

What about the Americans who fire bombed all those cities? Even Mcnamara

777

5/21/19 11:22pm

Interesting that way more Japanese were killed by fire bombing than nukes, but

CougarAndMerlin

5/21/19 11:45pm

Anyone that thinks the Japanese weren’t at least terrible as the Germans aren’t informed. I personally think the Japanes

sgriff

5/22/19 12:29am

The same reason the Nazis are considered *slightly* less evil than Mao,

valleus

5/22/19 4:18am

That's true

HighHorse

5/22/19 4:39am

Slightly less, or slightly more?

chilango

5/22/19 5:58am

Dude, just stop talking. You're apparently horribly misinformed on this issue

UberDeek

5/22/19 9:13am

The irony is so thick. But in this case, his post describes why more, not why

chilango

5/22/19 9:21am

Wow, you're so stuck on the genocide... You've discounted how many human lives

UberDeek

5/22/19 9:32am

Yeah, it’s so weird to get stuck on genocide, especially the industrial-scale

chilango

5/22/19 10:17am

Yeah, and a German Nazi helped saved 200,000 chinese from the Japanese during the rape of Nanking.

sgriff

5/22/19 10:37am

Yes, I’ve been there, several times. My company had offices in Nanjing, so I

chilango

5/22/19 10:49am

I see what you're saying. Fair enough.

sgriff

5/22/19 11:33am

Do you think that maybe your experience there has possibly clouded your

macaroni

5/22/19 12:22pm

It’s definitely informed it. More data and information are usually helpful and

chilango

5/22/19 2:40pm

Of course it’s generally good. It can also cloud your analysis negatively.

macaroni

5/22/19 3:03pm

The POW discussion is clear, the Japanese were much worse than the Germans, at

chilango

5/22/19 4:13pm

I really don't see the uniqueness....

Xenon

5/22/19 5:25pm

You’re not Chinese though. You clearly have an affinity for Asian culture. To

macaroni

5/22/19 6:58pm

And Minnie Vautrin and Gingling Women's College (a Christian College at the

Troy McClure

5/22/19 4:46pm

At one level, comparing atrocities is a farce, and

valleus

5/22/19 4:03pm

They actually weren't though. The targeting of ethnic groups goes back a long

Dynasty1

5/22/19 4:08pm

I disagree ... the only unique element of Nazi Evil was EFFICIENCY...

Xenon

5/22/19 5:12pm

I agree with both of you, ethnic killing is old as recorded history. But the

valleus

5/22/19 6:26pm

I don’t see why that matters. Really, why does that matter? Wouldn’t you be more

macaroni

5/22/19 6:50pm

You can argue if the difference matters in a moral sense or not. Robert Conquest

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