Any system that does not allow for success and failure is destined to fail

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May 25, 2022
7:09:17am

coolblue All-American

Any system that does not allow for success and failure is destined to fail

because they will be forced to cater to the lowest common denominator.

See socialism.

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coolblue

Bio page: coolblue
Joined: Jul 1, 2004
Last login: May 1, 2024
Total posts: 3,480 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

The Utah County Rules of open enrollment so kids can move to other schools to

The Old Y

5/25/22 12:32am

Sometimes it's not about just winning a championship but to actually get

ManicBlue

5/25/22 12:48am

It is about winning. Don’t fool yourself. And equating academics with auxiliary

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:12am

Transferring schools does not guarantee winning anything. You can believe what you want but

ManicBlue

5/25/22 1:31am

LOL.. come on man.. it's all about winning

byukarl

5/25/22 9:21am

How many teams win championships each year? ONE.

ManicBlue

5/25/22 10:22am

AF wins XC and Track all the time taking PG kids

byukarl

5/25/22 11:30am

What exactly is your point?

ManicBlue

5/25/22 11:38am

I added some additional info in my previous reply

byukarl

5/25/22 11:41am

RE: I added some additional info in my previous reply

ManicBlue

5/25/22 11:51am

He said championships but others are saying winning. People transfer to win and

5/25/22 3:27pm

I don't have a problem with kids trying to put themselves in the best situation

ManicBlue

5/25/22 4:01pm

It’s actually a lot more about recruiting than winning. Obviously

cougfanz

5/25/22 6:15am

I agree on recruiting. Winning helps but so does getting playing time early.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:20am

I disagree with this theory. In 2022 if a kid has the talent and goes to

Nagurski

5/25/22 10:07am

A lot of that also takes money which not every parent can afford.

ManicBlue

5/25/22 10:23am

True, it also depends on the sport. We did not and have not done a lot of

Nagurski

5/25/22 1:56pm

What position did your son play? There's some positions where this can hold

fattycoug

5/25/22 11:15am

Agree.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 11:59am

Fair point, but camps will remove that barrier quickly.

Nagurski

5/25/22 1:54pm

they can but if you, ultimately, don't have film it makes it harder. Sure, the

fattycoug

5/25/22 2:06pm

Sometimes.

cougfanz

5/25/22 11:20am

Yeah.. they run the times.. show up in camp.. exactly

byukarl

5/25/22 11:49am

More about talent development opportunities, which can lead to wins

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 10:42am

It's too bad that all schools don't put the same emphasis on academics

Kid_A

5/25/22 7:09am

It’s hard to tell what the emphasis on academics is unless you have a kid on the

MVPlayer

5/25/22 8:37am

It’s not a county thing, it’s state law. It happens everywhere. And the biggest

Scratch

5/25/22 12:56am

Using that logic couldn't you also say you are giving another kid an opportunity

SUAVO

5/25/22 6:09am

The rules aren’t exclusive to top athletes.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:18am

This is ultimately why we decided not to enroll at a school farther from us.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 10:44am

The UHSAA has zero say in those kinds of things

pastyute

5/25/22 5:43am

One point missed. Playing time.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:12am

My kids go to a school were it is almost impossible to get in, and the academics are off the charts, so everybody wants

doctorcoug

5/25/22 6:22am

Where is this? Utah?

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:27am

what academic school in Utah County is off the charts and everyone wants to go

BYUheaven

5/25/22 9:31am

I don't know the varsity level teams, but I know the underclass well. AF is stacked, they cut kids that would be stars

doctorcoug

5/25/22 6:15am

Yep.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:23am

Davis County is also open enrollment, no different from the rest of Utah

palangi

5/25/22 6:55am

It’s not that they don’t allow it, but the culture here isn’t transfer

The Old Y

5/25/22 8:18am

If it is allowed and Davis just doesn't do it, your entire premise crumbles

reddead

5/25/22 9:14am

Ha. Sounds like your kid transferred to win. Good luck!

The Old Y

5/25/22 9:43am

I'm too young for that.. But I went to HS in that area, so I'm admittedly biased

reddead

5/25/22 9:48am

your post "the Utah county rules for open enrollment". reddead is correct, your

palangi

5/25/22 9:48am

It's interesting that none of the Utah County Dad defenders on here aren't

The Old Y

5/25/22 10:34am

You're missing the point. Vs Davis, many of the UT Co schools are better

reddead

5/25/22 10:48am

No. Your point isn't a good one or accurate. There are 50+ 5A/6A teams and

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:06am

You're claiming that Davis Co kids are the loyalist kids in the country. It's

palangi

5/25/22 11:24am

Well, you've jumped the shark now. See you around!

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:36am

This is silly; you're taking this way too personal

reddead

5/25/22 11:54am

It's a great point. Dominant high schools will always be in locations

cougfanz

5/25/22 12:07pm

I mean, you've literally spent the last hour trying to talk about my OP, but yea

The Old Y

5/25/22 12:10pm

Why would anyone deny it's happening when it clearly is?

fattycoug

5/25/22 10:54am

Transfers happen, it's just not limited to Utah county. It's not limited to UT

palangi

5/25/22 11:16am

You: kids in Utah county are transferring to winning teams because

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:33am

Dude your OP was about Utah county rules for open enrollment needing to change

palangi

5/25/22 11:53am

Me: the kids in Davis county don't do it. And the parents/admin/UHSAA who

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:55am

except kids in Davis county do do it. (though, most of the ones I know

fattycoug

5/25/22 1:51pm

That only bolsters my point. UHSAA should care that equitability is leaving

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:37pm

South SL and Northern UT County is different, so you're wrong there. The culture

palangi

5/25/22 9:42am

yep. The four or five best football teams the last years have been LP, CC, AF,

BYUheaven

5/25/22 9:59am

I know personally talking to PG XC coach that Baseball team benefits

byukarl

5/25/22 11:50am

of course they are recruiting. My point being is The Old Y thinks Utah

BYUheaven

5/25/22 11:58am

Don’t you mean Region 4?

Dr. 91coug

5/25/22 2:40pm

PG Vikings youth baseball. A recruiting pipeline

doctorcoug

5/25/22 12:40pm

See: Timpview Baseball

The Old Y

5/25/22 10:00am

Orem has a very competitive and organized youth baseball league. Provo has

BYUheaven

5/25/22 10:04am

Yeah baseball kids don't move or transfer to Timpview,they've sucked for many yr

palangi

5/25/22 10:09am

Everything is RMSB now anyways. You got kids in Weber county going to play comp

The Old Y

5/25/22 10:23am

Orem Youth league starts at 6 and then the good kids start to get picked off for

BYUheaven

5/25/22 10:30am

I agree, except it's not the state, it's the country. Youth sports have jumped

palangi

5/25/22 10:46am

and everything is not RMSB these days. RMSB is still big in Northern Utah but

BYUheaven

5/25/22 11:36am

Wasatch Baseball has also gotten really big in the midweek scene.

Scratch

5/25/22 11:41am

Yep, wasatch baseball, SLCC 14u league, out of state tournaments, and

BYUheaven

5/25/22 11:44am

Then how come Provo high fields a decent team?

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:23am

The 7-19 last in region Provo hs baseball team?

palangi

5/25/22 10:30am

But they aren't Timpview bad. Provo is competitive. Timpview sees the other team's JV squad.

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:43am

They are decent when the coach has a kid in the program. I think he has one in a

BYUheaven

5/25/22 10:36am

Coaching. Better history which keeps athletes in the pipeline.. outside

cougfanz

5/25/22 11:29am

I don't get your playing time/super team argument. Can't have it both ways. To

palangi

5/25/22 10:27am

"Playing Time" is a reference to the excuse parents give to play on a superteam.

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:31pm

you're simply being too broad with your strokes. There's lots of different

fattycoug

5/25/22 2:37pm

Nonsense. That kid should have been loyal to corner canyon and road the bench

BYUheaven

5/25/22 2:43pm

you can't even get to Snow that way, though

fattycoug

5/25/22 2:46pm

Cute. But he didn't get offered to Snow College if he didn't start as a Junior.

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:47pm

I accept your criticism. But my point was my stroke. And there are more than a

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:44pm

It absolutely is happening but if oyu have open enrollment for academics I'm not

fattycoug

5/25/22 3:00pm

Thanks for admitting it. As a parent, how do you not choose the best route for

The Old Y

5/26/22 10:56am

No it’s because Utah County people are living right on and off the field.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 10:47am

One example of how dumb open enrollment is

Medute

5/25/22 6:23am

State rules control transferring. UHSAA is king here. Davis doesn't play by

Iron Coug

5/25/22 6:28am

Interesting. Can individuals donate to pay coaches more?

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:33am

As a coach in Alpine where can I get this significantly more you speak of?

Adwight

5/25/22 6:50am

I have very direct knowledge of coaches pay and this man speaks the truth. Pay for coaches is for nada. For the love of

doctorcoug

5/25/22 7:11am

You get it through your camps. Can boost your income with camps depending on

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 1:08pm

Any system that does not allow for success and failure is destined to fail

coolblue

5/25/22 7:09am

Jaxon Dart.. Roy -> Corner Canyon -> USC -> Ole Miss

TheLost

5/25/22 7:32am

Exactly, it is about PT.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 8:07am

Dart didn’t go to CC for playing time. He was already playing at Roy. He went

NWCoug

5/25/22 8:24am

He went to Roy for PT not CC. No way he goes to Roy if PT was not involved, don't kid yourself.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 8:53am

... He started at Roy. How much more playing time can you get?

Blusox

5/25/22 8:24am

He went to Roy for PT and CC for exposure/not championships.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 8:53am

Yes, Dart was a Farmington kid(so it is happening in Davis County) went to Roy

palangi

5/25/22 9:54am

These kinds of comments always baffle me…

5/25/22 8:02am

Maddux Madsen, starting QB at AF in the Fall, signed with Boise state, started last night for Lehi. Maybe they moved...

doctorcoug

5/25/22 8:17am

That kind of stuff is definitely weird. Doesn't seem to fit into the rules

fattycoug

5/25/22 8:20am

I was a state champion, all-state athlete. You would have to chop off my fingers before I moved schools to compete at

doctorcoug

5/25/22 8:24am

Agree, but team sports are different.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 9:06am

However, you could easily argue that Mountain View coaches (depending on when..Dave Houle)

5/25/22 9:14am

Houle, Arbogast, Kuhlmann. Best of the best. And this is a great point.

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:17am

The beauty of “clock-based” sports

cougfanz

5/25/22 9:48am

Same here on all accounts. What years did you run? Maybe we know each other.

RUNBYU1

5/25/22 10:15am

Loophole for Maddux…

5/25/22 8:31am

Yep. This is the game, “playing time”

The Old Y

5/25/22 8:37am

I looked into this...you need to be the head coach to be able to do this. Maybe it has changed in the last 4 years. For

doctorcoug

5/25/22 8:50am

Madsen's younger brother also plays for Lehi. Maddux wanted to play with his

BYUheaven

5/25/22 9:07am

Interesting that the kid left one Ingersoll to play for his brother.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 1:12pm

Dad is a coach at Lehi and his brothers played there

Baseball77

5/25/22 12:16pm

If you're going to rail against something, at least be right about it.

fattycoug

5/25/22 8:12am

I wished my kids could have played one sport where

BillyGoat

5/25/22 8:18am

Honestly, usually it's not about winning. It's about lazy recruiting scouts visiting 2-3 schools in an area.

5/25/22 8:37am

I can see high school sports going away in 10 years

Blusox

5/25/22 8:43am

For a while, I was scared high school football was going away with all the

crack

5/25/22 9:12am

No way. High school sports are here to stay. Schools and communities need them.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 1:44pm

Basketball and football are still pretty strong,

Blusox

6/5/22 7:50pm

When kids transfer, do they have to sit out? I think in AZ the first transfer

crack

5/25/22 9:11am

You can enroll in any school whenever you want. If you have played sports at

fattycoug

5/25/22 9:14am

But, you can still play JV and develop. You only sit varisty.

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:46am

In AZ, they can't play at all. At least, I believe that's the rule.

crack

5/25/22 1:10pm

Man, really ruffled some Utah County dads feathers here. #UtahCountyBoard

The Old Y

5/25/22 9:45am

You haven't been reading any of the posts huh?

ManicBlue

5/25/22 10:46am

You guys think open enrollment is bad in 5A 6A try being a rural 3A and 2A

Baseball77

5/25/22 12:18pm

I've noticed this before. I can't imagine being Ogden and saying, hey,

The Old Y

5/25/22 12:44pm

It is generally always towards those with means.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 12:48pm

As a head Baseball coach at 6A Davis County school here’s my 2 cents

jkgteg

5/25/22 1:16pm

This is great insight coach. So the rules are/were different. Makes sense to me.

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:23pm

RE: This is great insight coach. So the rules are/were different. Makes sense to

jkgteg

5/25/22 1:34pm

100% True. We have 4 or 5 teammates whose dads played on the same team 25 years

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:37pm

He hit the nail on the head. MWB and RA baseball academy are producing some

BYUheaven

5/25/22 1:40pm

RE: He hit the nail on the head. MWB and RA baseball academy are producing some

jkgteg

5/25/22 1:47pm

We've played with a few of the Freemont kids, they drove to UC for the YardDawgs

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:53pm

Good luck on setting that up. More quality training is good for the whole state

BYUheaven

5/25/22 2:03pm

No one is talking about the open enrollment gorilla at AF.

Dr. 91coug

5/25/22 2:49pm

Lucy Wallin from Rowland Hall...freshman 1st singles state champ. She ended up going to Skyline (I think) the next year

doctorcoug

5/25/22 1:40pm

Its fine to go to the right school!

sailorcoug11

5/25/22 12:50pm

Same way where I live and I hate it

5/25/22 2:22pm

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