but it doesn't. they aren't being punished for doing well in GPA and ACT,

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Jul 19, 2018
12:56:12pm

smokymountainrain All-American

but it doesn't. they aren't being punished for doing well in GPA and ACT,

rather other kids are being rewarded for achievement in other areas.

IOW, GPA and ACT simply aren't guarantees anymore, rather there is more to the formula. its not as if they look at two kids - one with a 4.0 and a 33 ACT and the other with a 3.3 and a 27 ACT and go - eh, we don't want nerds, so lets take the dumb kid. you still have a ton of kids there with 4.0s and 32+ ACTs.

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smokymountainrain

Previous username: travishansensucks
New username: smr
Bio page: smokymountainrain
Joined: Dec 14, 2006
Last login: Jul 3, 2019
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Messages

Author

Time

For what it is worth regarding BYU admissions

Carnac

7/19/18 12:41pm

Don't really like that directive. It amounts to a punishment for achievement

Skeptical Optimist

7/19/18 12:43pm

To play devil's advocate

Carnac

7/19/18 12:46pm

Yes. It is a church institution and to be fair it should accept the most-

byuwahoo

7/19/18 12:59pm

but it doesn't. they aren't being punished for doing well in GPA and ACT,

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 12:56pm

Every other school uses those metrics to decide who gets in. If BYU decides

Skeptical Optimist

7/19/18 1:12pm

fair. i just don't see it as a punishment, rather a reward for others. they

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 1:29pm

I'm sure the kid with the good grades and great test score who doesn't get

Skeptical Optimist

7/19/18 1:32pm

and maybe a crisis of faith for his/her whole family

byuwahoo

7/19/18 1:39pm

can't all be winners - some kid, somewhere is always going to feel like victim.

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 1:39pm

I think the thing you're missing in calling it a punishment

displacedute

7/19/18 1:40pm

I don't see that as true, either

7/19/18 7:19pm

BYU is very clear about their metrics, if you go to one of their presentations..

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:40pm

I wonder how this is actually implemented

Tricky

7/20/18 5:23pm

There are over 100K LDS HS Seniors every year in the US. Can't serve

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 12:44pm

I don't think I like this.

JuicyJam

7/19/18 12:44pm

That is ridiculous and hopefully the person you spoke to is dead wrong about it. Rejecting the best and brightest so

Baron

7/19/18 12:46pm

Why do you think UVU is now the largest state school in Utah?

BYU Grounds

7/19/18 12:49pm

Because it is the best public University in the state.

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:05pm

lol. Its not better than the U. As much as I dislike the U its more rigorous than accepts anything with a

7/19/18 1:07pm

Then why are more students accepted to both choosing UVU over UofU?

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:09pm

how do you know this fact?

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 1:16pm

It was widely published a year or more ago. It looked at all the schools in Utah

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:19pm

I looked again, still nothing.

displacedute

7/19/18 8:47pm

I found it.

displacedute

7/19/18 8:49pm

Not hard to find when it was on the first page of the board.

BYUtka

7/19/18 8:59pm

I actually looked at your old posts and found the one from last year.

displacedute

7/19/18 9:30pm

I shouldn't be surprised, you are a Yewt.

BYUtka

7/19/18 8:50pm

RE: I shouldn't be surprised, you are a Yewt.

displacedute

7/19/18 8:56pm

RE: Then why are more students accepted to both choosing UVU over UofU?

displacedute

7/19/18 1:17pm

So you are confirming that a UofU education is not worth the cost compared to

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:20pm

No, I'm saying you might take the cheaper option.

displacedute

7/19/18 1:28pm

Nope. UVU > Harvard i mean just look at its growth rate

7/19/18 1:38pm

Good point. UVU now the #1 school in America.

displacedute

7/19/18 1:50pm

How many kids, accepted to both are choosing UVU? UofU vs UVU, they are

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:56pm

Source?

displacedute

7/19/18 2:01pm

Des News I think. It was discussed at length on the board when the data came out

BYUtka

7/19/18 2:27pm

I looked and couldn't find it.

displacedute

7/19/18 2:30pm

And the circle comes around again. UVUs cost may have something to do with this also kids wanting to go to utah county.

7/19/18 2:02pm

Cost and location are part of the package that is better.

BYUtka

7/19/18 2:11pm

Agreed.

displacedute

7/19/18 2:15pm

Higher yield doesn't necessarily mean better academics

Resurgens

7/19/18 8:15pm

Probably lots of LDS kids that wanted the Provo "social" experience with other LDS kids.

Rhino84

7/20/18 10:47am

BYU is a different bird with different aims

Carnac

7/19/18 12:49pm

So glad that BYU rejecting a kid is BYU's way of telling them what is best for them because they can't do it otherwise.

Baron

7/19/18 12:52pm

Let them make that decision! Let each candidate that gets accepted to both BYU

byuwahoo

7/19/18 1:02pm

It's not rejecting the best and brightest. Just because you have a 32/4.0 does

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 12:52pm

The op was about rejecting "perfect" or the high achievers.

Baron

7/19/18 12:54pm

He's misinterpreting or making some inferences that are a little off track.

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 1:04pm

I have heard the same from BYU admissions people

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:44pm

If BYU wants to be more inclusive they should grow enrollment significantly

CaliWG

7/19/18 12:52pm

I suspect that they are wary of spending tithing dollars

Carnac

7/19/18 12:55pm

They have the money easily to expand.

Baron

7/19/18 12:56pm

I believe that BYU should increase the enrollment and student body significantly

7/19/18 2:38pm

would you be ok if they went to 50K but doubled tuition

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 4:24pm

Yes

NSFW

7/19/18 5:43pm

It is unfortunately true. BYU has gone to what they call a "holistic" approach. It's a way they can punish high

HarlemCoug

7/19/18 10:15pm

It isn't punishing scholastic achievement. It is considering more than just

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:47pm

GPA and ACT are the best metrics... they should be weighted accordingly. BYU should take the best. They don't and it's

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:04pm

You do realize that Harvard does the same thing. Execution might be different

LaserCoug

7/20/18 10:07pm

Harvard takes race into consideration in achieving its "well-roundedness"; I

Monomachos

7/20/18 10:46pm

I feel like there have been anecdotes on CB that suggest BYU also does.

Resurgens

7/21/18 7:44pm

So it should be only GPA & ACT, no essay, no extracurricular?

7/22/18 3:42pm

BYU rightly uses multiple metrics to find the best students. They then wrongly reject applicants who have high

HarlemCoug

7/22/18 3:51pm

See my comments above

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:41pm

<< Deleted >>

trjohnson007

7/20/18 3:48pm

it is exactly 1% easier to get into BYU from outside of Utah. 1%.

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:02pm

Where did you get that from?Based from what?

7/21/18 2:33pm

Mormon leaks published the administration's metrics. You get 1 point for going to high school outside of

HarlemCoug

7/21/18 3:57pm

Not true anymore. They have abandoned that methodology.

RugbyCoug

7/21/18 11:46pm

May not like it, but it makes sense.

lightmann

7/19/18 12:46pm

So just call it what it is...a lottery.

IceBlueCoug

7/19/18 12:47pm

I'm OK with this, but then please tell me the purpose of BYU?

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 12:47pm

What does the purpose have to do with admissions critera to begin with?

7/19/18 12:49pm

Seriously?

kccougar

7/19/18 12:50pm

Any admissions criteria could support the aim of BYU. Just as it did in the 80s when I got accepted.

7/19/18 12:52pm

I hope this is true. This is good news.

bigbluecougar

7/19/18 12:48pm

My daughter had a similar experience

Brigham

7/19/18 12:48pm

sounds like BYU made the right choice. what was the problem again?

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 1:09pm

It was disappointing at first but We are happy now.

Brigham

7/19/18 4:03pm

No way they pass on "perfection" to share the wealth with other schools...

cougarnw

7/19/18 12:49pm

correct assessment based on my knowledge.

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 12:53pm

Hopefully the attached photo now counts for triple what it used to

darkcoug

7/19/18 12:50pm

Yep, the process completely changed starting this year. They got rid of the

fredgarvin

7/19/18 12:54pm

and they need to notify them very early on so that they don't lose out on

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 12:59pm

The uncertainty is definitely frustrating. I'd also like to see an absolute

ArchbishopMitty

7/19/18 6:33pm

This needs to be fixed!!!!! Unless it is the prophet making the admission

byuwahoo

7/19/18 12:58pm

Essays are important to every school that is selective in enrollment

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:54pm

2 young men I know pretty well applied this year and I'm really frustrated

Rich Lather

7/19/18 12:59pm

Wow, that is very frustrating and telling. I hope they aren't placing too much

ArchbishopMitty

7/20/18 11:04am

If he is really a poor student he will be out after a year (academic suspension) and the other kid can take his place.

Rhino84

7/20/18 11:42am

I admire the objective, but they really need to let applicants and their

NewMexiCoug

7/19/18 1:01pm

There is not a lottery element. There is a judgement element. It's more like

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 1:07pm

Not a lottery

rmreitz

7/20/18 4:04pm

BYU admits they don't take all of the best academic students. They also admit they don't take all of the most well

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:08pm

No they don’t.

RugbyCoug

7/20/18 11:21pm

wrong - the front page of the application website admits it... they are now using a "holistic" approach which is an

HarlemCoug

7/21/18 4:00pm

I know several people who teach at BYU. They say that overall

Monomachos

7/19/18 1:05pm

That's different. The admissions change we're discussing just happened this year

j20

7/19/18 1:24pm

Uh-oh

Monomachos

7/19/18 1:44pm

It may even be the reason for the change

7/19/18 7:24pm

Also- the directive for this unusual ordering of priorities came from

Monomachos

7/19/18 1:08pm

What are the 7 or 8 factors that rank above GPA?

Phasor

7/19/18 1:10pm

Not literally the 8th or 9th. ACT and GPA are 2 or 8 or 9 factors that make up

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 1:11pm

No way GPA is that low in importance.

mudpupper

7/19/18 1:11pm

Those calling it a lottery system.... It isn't. The criteria has changed.

mudpupper

7/19/18 1:11pm

No, it sounds subjective

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 1:17pm

that still doesn't make it a lottery

Kid_A

7/19/18 1:29pm

What it is, is scary. Like mods and el jefe on CB

7/19/18 1:48pm

It probably leads to more diversity, not less

Odysseus

7/19/18 1:55pm

What kind of diversity?

byuwahoo

7/19/18 1:59pm

It's possible there is a high correlation of superb GPA/ACT scores to certain

Odysseus

7/19/18 2:08pm

I'm fine with taking all of those factors into consideration at the

byuwahoo

7/19/18 2:26pm

I’m with you there

Odysseus

7/19/18 3:54pm

Functionally it is if you have different human entities employing unidentified

ArchbishopMitty

7/19/18 6:36pm

The issue is $$$$$$! Cost of BYU vs other 'good" schools.and Seminary

7/19/18 2:19pm

I'm in the camp that sees seminary as having eternal value, so I humbly disagree

byuwahoo

7/19/18 2:27pm

Thats fine. What did you learn in Seminary that people

7/19/18 3:51pm

Same. I'd prefer my son to internalize the seminary lessons over much of his

LaserCoug

7/19/18 4:13pm

But what are you meaning? As a semunary grad

7/19/18 5:16pm

Sure you can get it elsewhere but rarely in that volume and frequency

LaserCoug

7/19/18 5:46pm

There's more and more evidence piling up that acceptance to BYU is little more

ArchbishopMitty

7/19/18 6:28pm

Squishy non objective evaluations means whoever the admissions people like, most

7/19/18 10:13pm

Genius. I guess they want the state of the academic program to match the

7/20/18 12:17am

Why do so many automatically assume that the students with the highest test

SWP

7/20/18 10:25am

If they work "far harder," how come their grades and even test scores are lower?

7/20/18 1:21pm

You've never run into someone who doesn't have natural talent. They grind it

LaserCoug

7/21/18 9:58am

Bronco Mendenhall is in charge of admissions, check.

7/21/18 11:20am

I'm highly skeptical. How would you know which students had high ACT scores?

7/20/18 1:22pm

He knows, because they applied

rmreitz

7/20/18 4:47pm

I'm just wondering, do you have a theory as to why so many kids that have been

ArchbishopMitty

7/20/18 3:53pm

you don't teach statistics do you??? are you the guy on CB who thinks having 3 star football players is better than 5

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:10pm

I can finally sleep knowing that my 3.2 GPA and no ACT score aren't what kept me

7/20/18 11:53am

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