I know several people who teach at BYU. They say that overall

Jul 19, 2018
1:05:44pm

Monomachos All-American

the students are brighter than 15-20 years ago, but that there seem to be a significant number of students that make them wonder how they ever were accepted - lazy, unfocused, not nearly as bright.
Now we know why.

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Monomachos

Previous username: zordan
Bio page: Monomachos
Joined: Jul 9, 2007
Last login: Apr 30, 2024
Total posts: 32,092 (664 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

For what it is worth regarding BYU admissions

Carnac

7/19/18 12:41pm

Don't really like that directive. It amounts to a punishment for achievement

Skeptical Optimist

7/19/18 12:43pm

To play devil's advocate

Carnac

7/19/18 12:46pm

Yes. It is a church institution and to be fair it should accept the most-

byuwahoo

7/19/18 12:59pm

but it doesn't. they aren't being punished for doing well in GPA and ACT,

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 12:56pm

Every other school uses those metrics to decide who gets in. If BYU decides

Skeptical Optimist

7/19/18 1:12pm

fair. i just don't see it as a punishment, rather a reward for others. they

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 1:29pm

I'm sure the kid with the good grades and great test score who doesn't get

Skeptical Optimist

7/19/18 1:32pm

and maybe a crisis of faith for his/her whole family

byuwahoo

7/19/18 1:39pm

can't all be winners - some kid, somewhere is always going to feel like victim.

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 1:39pm

I think the thing you're missing in calling it a punishment

displacedute

7/19/18 1:40pm

I don't see that as true, either

CougarVeteran

7/19/18 7:19pm

BYU is very clear about their metrics, if you go to one of their presentations..

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:40pm

I wonder how this is actually implemented

Tricky

7/20/18 5:23pm

There are over 100K LDS HS Seniors every year in the US. Can't serve

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 12:44pm

I don't think I like this.

JuicyJam

7/19/18 12:44pm

That is ridiculous and hopefully the person you spoke to is dead wrong about it. Rejecting the best and brightest so

Baron

7/19/18 12:46pm

Why do you think UVU is now the largest state school in Utah?

BYU Grounds

7/19/18 12:49pm

Because it is the best public University in the state.

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:05pm

lol. Its not better than the U. As much as I dislike the U its more rigorous than accepts anything with a

monkeycowboy

7/19/18 1:07pm

Then why are more students accepted to both choosing UVU over UofU?

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:09pm

how do you know this fact?

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 1:16pm

It was widely published a year or more ago. It looked at all the schools in Utah

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:19pm

I looked again, still nothing.

displacedute

7/19/18 8:47pm

I found it.

displacedute

7/19/18 8:49pm

Not hard to find when it was on the first page of the board.

BYUtka

7/19/18 8:59pm

I actually looked at your old posts and found the one from last year.

displacedute

7/19/18 9:30pm

I shouldn't be surprised, you are a Yewt.

BYUtka

7/19/18 8:50pm

RE: I shouldn't be surprised, you are a Yewt.

displacedute

7/19/18 8:56pm

RE: Then why are more students accepted to both choosing UVU over UofU?

displacedute

7/19/18 1:17pm

So you are confirming that a UofU education is not worth the cost compared to

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:20pm

No, I'm saying you might take the cheaper option.

displacedute

7/19/18 1:28pm

Nope. UVU > Harvard i mean just look at its growth rate

monkeycowboy

7/19/18 1:38pm

Good point. UVU now the #1 school in America.

displacedute

7/19/18 1:50pm

How many kids, accepted to both are choosing UVU? UofU vs UVU, they are

BYUtka

7/19/18 1:56pm

Source?

displacedute

7/19/18 2:01pm

Des News I think. It was discussed at length on the board when the data came out

BYUtka

7/19/18 2:27pm

I looked and couldn't find it.

displacedute

7/19/18 2:30pm

And the circle comes around again. UVUs cost may have something to do with this also kids wanting to go to utah county.

monkeycowboy

7/19/18 2:02pm

Cost and location are part of the package that is better.

BYUtka

7/19/18 2:11pm

Agreed.

displacedute

7/19/18 2:15pm

Higher yield doesn't necessarily mean better academics

Resurgens

7/19/18 8:15pm

Probably lots of LDS kids that wanted the Provo "social" experience with other LDS kids.

Rhino84

7/20/18 10:47am

BYU is a different bird with different aims

Carnac

7/19/18 12:49pm

So glad that BYU rejecting a kid is BYU's way of telling them what is best for them because they can't do it otherwise.

Baron

7/19/18 12:52pm

Let them make that decision! Let each candidate that gets accepted to both BYU

byuwahoo

7/19/18 1:02pm

It's not rejecting the best and brightest. Just because you have a 32/4.0 does

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 12:52pm

The op was about rejecting "perfect" or the high achievers.

Baron

7/19/18 12:54pm

He's misinterpreting or making some inferences that are a little off track.

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 1:04pm

I have heard the same from BYU admissions people

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:44pm

If BYU wants to be more inclusive they should grow enrollment significantly

CaliWG

7/19/18 12:52pm

I suspect that they are wary of spending tithing dollars

Carnac

7/19/18 12:55pm

They have the money easily to expand.

Baron

7/19/18 12:56pm

I believe that BYU should increase the enrollment and student body significantly

Professor Coug

7/19/18 2:38pm

would you be ok if they went to 50K but doubled tuition

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 4:24pm

Yes

NSFW

7/19/18 5:43pm

It is unfortunately true. BYU has gone to what they call a "holistic" approach. It's a way they can punish high

HarlemCoug

7/19/18 10:15pm

It isn't punishing scholastic achievement. It is considering more than just

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:47pm

GPA and ACT are the best metrics... they should be weighted accordingly. BYU should take the best. They don't and it's

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:04pm

You do realize that Harvard does the same thing. Execution might be different

LaserCoug

7/20/18 10:07pm

Harvard takes race into consideration in achieving its "well-roundedness"; I

Monomachos

7/20/18 10:46pm

I feel like there have been anecdotes on CB that suggest BYU also does.

Resurgens

7/21/18 7:44pm

So it should be only GPA & ACT, no essay, no extracurricular?

cougarmeister

7/22/18 3:42pm

BYU rightly uses multiple metrics to find the best students. They then wrongly reject applicants who have high

HarlemCoug

7/22/18 3:51pm

See my comments above

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:41pm

<< Deleted >>

trjohnson007

7/20/18 3:48pm

it is exactly 1% easier to get into BYU from outside of Utah. 1%.

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:02pm

Where did you get that from?Based from what?

CarolinaCoug

7/21/18 2:33pm

Mormon leaks published the administration's metrics. You get 1 point for going to high school outside of

HarlemCoug

7/21/18 3:57pm

Not true anymore. They have abandoned that methodology.

RugbyCoug

7/21/18 11:46pm

May not like it, but it makes sense.

lightmann

7/19/18 12:46pm

So just call it what it is...a lottery.

IceBlueCoug

7/19/18 12:47pm

I'm OK with this, but then please tell me the purpose of BYU?

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 12:47pm

What does the purpose have to do with admissions critera to begin with?

Turnpike Lane

7/19/18 12:49pm

Seriously?

kccougar

7/19/18 12:50pm

Any admissions criteria could support the aim of BYU. Just as it did in the 80s when I got accepted.

Turnpike Lane

7/19/18 12:52pm

I hope this is true. This is good news.

bigbluecougar

7/19/18 12:48pm

My daughter had a similar experience

Brigham

7/19/18 12:48pm

sounds like BYU made the right choice. what was the problem again?

smokymountainrain

7/19/18 1:09pm

It was disappointing at first but We are happy now.

Brigham

7/19/18 4:03pm

No way they pass on "perfection" to share the wealth with other schools...

cougarnw

7/19/18 12:49pm

correct assessment based on my knowledge.

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 12:53pm

Hopefully the attached photo now counts for triple what it used to

darkcoug

7/19/18 12:50pm

Yep, the process completely changed starting this year. They got rid of the

fredgarvin

7/19/18 12:54pm

and they need to notify them very early on so that they don't lose out on

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 12:59pm

The uncertainty is definitely frustrating. I'd also like to see an absolute

ArchbishopMitty

7/19/18 6:33pm

This needs to be fixed!!!!! Unless it is the prophet making the admission

byuwahoo

7/19/18 12:58pm

Essays are important to every school that is selective in enrollment

rmreitz

7/20/18 3:54pm

2 young men I know pretty well applied this year and I'm really frustrated

Rich Lather

7/19/18 12:59pm

Wow, that is very frustrating and telling. I hope they aren't placing too much

ArchbishopMitty

7/20/18 11:04am

If he is really a poor student he will be out after a year (academic suspension) and the other kid can take his place.

Rhino84

7/20/18 11:42am

I admire the objective, but they really need to let applicants and their

NewMexiCoug

7/19/18 1:01pm

There is not a lottery element. There is a judgement element. It's more like

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 1:07pm

Not a lottery

rmreitz

7/20/18 4:04pm

BYU admits they don't take all of the best academic students. They also admit they don't take all of the most well

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:08pm

No they don’t.

RugbyCoug

7/20/18 11:21pm

wrong - the front page of the application website admits it... they are now using a "holistic" approach which is an

HarlemCoug

7/21/18 4:00pm

I know several people who teach at BYU. They say that overall

Monomachos

7/19/18 1:05pm

That's different. The admissions change we're discussing just happened this year

j20

7/19/18 1:24pm

Uh-oh

Monomachos

7/19/18 1:44pm

It may even be the reason for the change

CougarVeteran

7/19/18 7:24pm

Also- the directive for this unusual ordering of priorities came from

Monomachos

7/19/18 1:08pm

What are the 7 or 8 factors that rank above GPA?

Phasor

7/19/18 1:10pm

Not literally the 8th or 9th. ACT and GPA are 2 or 8 or 9 factors that make up

RugbyCoug

7/19/18 1:11pm

No way GPA is that low in importance.

mudpupper

7/19/18 1:11pm

Those calling it a lottery system.... It isn't. The criteria has changed.

mudpupper

7/19/18 1:11pm

No, it sounds subjective

Nat Gas Man

7/19/18 1:17pm

that still doesn't make it a lottery

Kid_A

7/19/18 1:29pm

What it is, is scary. Like mods and el jefe on CB

CarolinaCoug

7/19/18 1:48pm

It probably leads to more diversity, not less

Odysseus

7/19/18 1:55pm

What kind of diversity?

byuwahoo

7/19/18 1:59pm

It's possible there is a high correlation of superb GPA/ACT scores to certain

Odysseus

7/19/18 2:08pm

I'm fine with taking all of those factors into consideration at the

byuwahoo

7/19/18 2:26pm

I’m with you there

Odysseus

7/19/18 3:54pm

Functionally it is if you have different human entities employing unidentified

ArchbishopMitty

7/19/18 6:36pm

The issue is $$$$$$! Cost of BYU vs other 'good" schools.and Seminary

CarolinaCoug

7/19/18 2:19pm

I'm in the camp that sees seminary as having eternal value, so I humbly disagree

byuwahoo

7/19/18 2:27pm

Thats fine. What did you learn in Seminary that people

CarolinaCoug

7/19/18 3:51pm

Same. I'd prefer my son to internalize the seminary lessons over much of his

LaserCoug

7/19/18 4:13pm

But what are you meaning? As a semunary grad

CarolinaCoug

7/19/18 5:16pm

Sure you can get it elsewhere but rarely in that volume and frequency

LaserCoug

7/19/18 5:46pm

There's more and more evidence piling up that acceptance to BYU is little more

ArchbishopMitty

7/19/18 6:28pm

Squishy non objective evaluations means whoever the admissions people like, most

CougarMandias

7/19/18 10:13pm

Genius. I guess they want the state of the academic program to match the

frontrowcougar

7/20/18 12:17am

Why do so many automatically assume that the students with the highest test

SWP

7/20/18 10:25am

If they work "far harder," how come their grades and even test scores are lower?

CougarMandias

7/20/18 1:21pm

You've never run into someone who doesn't have natural talent. They grind it

LaserCoug

7/21/18 9:58am

Bronco Mendenhall is in charge of admissions, check.

CougarMandias

7/21/18 11:20am

I'm highly skeptical. How would you know which students had high ACT scores?

frontrowcougar

7/20/18 1:22pm

He knows, because they applied

rmreitz

7/20/18 4:47pm

I'm just wondering, do you have a theory as to why so many kids that have been

ArchbishopMitty

7/20/18 3:53pm

you don't teach statistics do you??? are you the guy on CB who thinks having 3 star football players is better than 5

HarlemCoug

7/20/18 9:10pm

I can finally sleep knowing that my 3.2 GPA and no ACT score aren't what kept me

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