My Account
Report problem with this ad
Start a related thread
Start a related poll
Reply via Boardmail
Oct 13, 2015
11:47
:25
am
frontrowcougar
Nobody is saying there should be no consequence. The issue is whether
losing your job or getting booted from school is an appropriate consequence. AND whether making that a consequence creates a perverse incentive that encourages more bad behavior.
Start a related thread
Start a related poll
Reply via Boardmail
Report problem with this ad
frontrowcougar
Bio page
frontrowcougar
Joined
May 21, 2007
Last login
Mar 17, 2020
Total posts
22,487 (540 FO)
Report problem with this ad
Messages
Author
Time
Going back to the honor code debate, Derik Stevenson asks an interesting
whoneedscorners?
10/13/15 9:26am
they can't... the same way a student wouldn't be able to.
kotacoug
10/13/15 9:27am
And that is wrong. BYU encourages dishonesty by their punitive actions.
messi
10/13/15 7:54pm
hahahhahaahhahahha
Bostonblue
10/13/15 9:12pm
You and your friends were role playing Dungeons & Dragons outside. None of these
messi
10/13/15 9:33pm
A very broad question. So many variables
SUAVO
10/13/15 9:28am
Really good question.
Hoax
10/13/15 9:28am
<< Deleted >>
Josef K
10/13/15 9:30am
Drug addictions and alcoholism doesn't get straighten out in a year. It is a
P-Boy Squad
10/13/15 9:33am
Unfortunately Derik has burned so many bridges he doesn't know there is a plan
MtnMan
10/13/15 9:32am
Do explain.
District
10/13/15 9:41am
Most Stakes run an Addiction Recovery Program
Cyclogist
10/13/15 9:47am
You would hope so. But Stevenson poses an interesting question.
District
10/13/15 9:54am
Well, the answer is
Cyclogist
10/13/15 10:20am
That's the textbook answer. Things don't always go according to the textbook
District
10/13/15 10:38am
Great discussion and thanks for your comment. What about nonmember students?
bluejammer
10/13/15 4:45pm
Derek has recently publicly stated he participates in the LDS ARP...
ZooBlue
10/13/15 12:50pm
do what Jamaal did. take a year off, or leave of absence,
Y05
10/13/15 5:11pm
meant for OP
Y05
10/13/15 5:12pm
<< Deleted >>
Y05
10/13/15 5:11pm
BYU is much more likely to work with someone if they come forward on their own
Colorado
10/13/15 9:33am
I think that's probably right, but the challenge is that some kids don't come
whoneedscorners?
10/13/15 9:35am
Always scary to own up to an addiction but the honor code does make it harder
Colorado
10/13/15 9:38am
but still a pretty scary risk to take, to be sure.
smokymountainrain
10/13/15 9:36am
That's what I've always felt was the glaring weakness of the HC. It is currently
Byron McNertney
10/13/15 9:34am
In some ways, LDS culture in general discourages repentance. There is a stigma
Colorado
10/13/15 9:57am
Exactly. My Bishop told me that if everyone had a red dot on their head that
District
10/13/15 10:42am
That explains why there's so much Utah gear lately-These truly are the last days
byutx
10/13/15 2:16pm
I believe that the harshest punishments are given to those who embarrass BYU
BYU Fan
10/13/15 9:58am
BYU shouldn't be embarrassed unless it's something pretty big like rape
District
10/13/15 10:44am
When students break the honor code and it becomes "news"
BYU Fan
10/13/15 11:20am
LOL - You draw the line at Rape?!?!? Good one.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 12:02pm
RE: That's what I've always felt was the glaring weakness of the HC. It is
JuanitaCougar
10/13/15 10:16am
Students are in the same boat.
mudpupper
10/13/15 9:36am
Even if you get caught sinning though.
District
10/13/15 9:44am
If a student is actively working with the bishop
Borg
10/13/15 9:48am
In my experience YEARS ago, the bishop would not do that.
kurda
10/13/15 10:32am
You realize that two steps in the repentance process are
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:42am
Of course. The penalty should and realistically is a spiritual one
Borg
10/13/15 12:29pm
Signing an endorsement and reporting a student to the HC office are
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 3:36pm
I know the counseling department at BYU isn't allowed to disclose to the honor
-C9-
10/13/15 9:42am
Probably because that would be against the law.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 9:59am
I know. I'm just stating what they probably use.
-C9-
10/13/15 10:14am
I interviewed for a job a few years ago at BYU and had an interview with a GA
midwestcoug
10/13/15 9:51am
You think losing your temple recommend is not consistent with repentance?
Bostonblue
10/13/15 10:00am
You could lose your recommend because you went to your bishop and
midwestcoug
10/13/15 10:04am
Not being able to enter the temple is a huge deal too, especially for weddings.
Bostonblue
10/13/15 10:09am
That discourages true repentance, encourages lying and cover up and is
Borg
10/13/15 10:09am
So if I lose my companies biggest customer - but am really sorry about it
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:14am
Perfect analogy.
AFCougK9
10/13/15 11:19am
No. The issue is disclosure. Do you want to punish employees for disclosing
frontrowcougar
10/13/15 11:41am
But Tax Cheats still pay a penalty.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 11:55am
Yes, and so do sinners. Even if they keep their job and/or stay enrolled.
frontrowcougar
10/13/15 12:53pm
Your posts have been especially awful today. Even for you.
messi
10/13/15 8:02pm
LOL - what a surprise that comments about person integrity
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:28pm
As a young man who grew up in Utah county I can tell you lying runs rampant
Rooney
10/13/15 6:18pm
I think you are confusing repentance with "lack of consequences".
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:10am
Right. If you commit a crime, one step in the repentance process
Bostonblue
10/13/15 10:25am
Nobody is saying there should be no consequence. The issue is whether
frontrowcougar
10/13/15 11:47am
This. As long as the person hasn't broken a law with serious crime
District
10/13/15 10:48am
Did Sarkesian break any laws? OR did he just embarrass SC?
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 11:56am
You really don't see the difference between Sarkisian's situation and a BYU
AFCougK9
10/13/15 12:55pm
<< Deleted >>
Bostonblue
10/13/15 3:16pm
I don't know. Tell me what the violation was? There are 100 possibilities here
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 3:41pm
You'd have the HC base its decision on the laws of Utah?
Bostonblue
10/13/15 3:18pm
Also - one of the worst sins you can commit as far as the Church is concerned
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 3:45pm
No, that's not the standard anyone is saying BYU should reach for.
russkiejedi
10/13/15 3:53pm
District seems pretty dedicated to that standard.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:07pm
Standards are fine. But if a guy loses his job because
District
10/13/15 4:03pm
What are you talking about?
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:06pm
While harsh, it is part of the employment contract.
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 11:11am
So many issues with what you said.
Singcat
10/13/15 12:24pm
No not really that many issues.
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 12:45pm
You sound like a real stiff
District
10/13/15 4:07pm
How serious should I take it?
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 4:36pm
Well for starters...
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:41pm
Take it as serious as you want
District
10/13/15 4:54pm
You seem to be the poster child for what I say all the time
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 5:39pm
So as serious as you do? Or otherwise I'm a stiff?
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 6:42pm
My point
District
10/14/15 10:29am
Do you really think the church should base its standards on what is "normal"
Bostonblue
10/13/15 4:13pm
I believe that BYU is more than willing to help those who need help
BYU Fan
10/13/15 9:55am
That's just not how it works
cougarbob137
10/13/15 10:48am
Sorry, meant for OP
cougarbob137
10/13/15 10:48am
the problem is the Bishops are not consistent.... one Bishop is fine working
kotacoug
10/13/15 10:59am
This^^^
cfootball24
10/13/15 11:03am
Wish there was some way to lessen inconsistencies with bishops
District
10/13/15 11:18am
The problem is no one's perfect......
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 11:59am
yes and no
cougarbob137
10/13/15 12:42pm
You go for help through your Bishop and family. Sometimes
rockhound
10/13/15 11:13am
^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ is how the HC system is SUPPOSED to work...
westcovina
10/13/15 12:30pm
Not the current honor code "system". The problem with the HC is with how it is
oonga
10/14/15 5:43am
Agreed. W
westcovina
10/14/15 2:31pm
Absolutely. How the honor code is enforced needs to be changed.
bvfcr
10/13/15 11:21am
There are things in place within the Program, but not public knowledge.
Katewot
10/13/15 11:22am
Simple. They go the BYU Counseling Center
Madmartigan
10/13/15 11:44am
Doubt they can. Mormon church doesn't work that way.
Singcat
10/13/15 12:12pm
Silly question if you ask me.
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 12:57pm
Don't you think that they already know that?
jellyfish
10/13/15 1:06pm
Hopefully
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:18pm
For just a minute, just consider what is at stake
jellyfish
10/13/15 1:44pm
RE: For just a minute, just consider what is at stake
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:59pm
Ask someone who has been through substance abuse
jellyfish
10/13/15 2:27pm
+1
District
10/13/15 4:13pm
Some people feel that way in the streets of Detroit.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:26pm
This "example" is so far beyond reality it's absurd.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:35pm
BYU is a better place to get help? Based on what exactly?
CDV
10/13/15 4:36pm
Care based on gospel standards - not the worlds standards.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:39pm
Also,
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:23pm
You don't get it.
District
10/13/15 4:19pm
Without a doubt someone doesn't get it, but it's not Ys_old_man.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:29pm
Hope you're never a bishop. Seems like you'll make sure and hold everyone
AFCougK9
10/14/15 10:56am
This is a problem with BYU in general (and not just drugs/alcohol)
Bgash
10/13/15 12:58pm
Amazing how many CBers are willing to assume the worst about the HC process.
panguitch
10/13/15 1:04pm
Unfortunately, many don't have to ASSUME anything. Many have seen examples.
Bgash
10/13/15 1:13pm
This comes across as incredibly naive. Some of us have seen the HC office work
CDV
10/13/15 1:23pm
RE: This comes across as incredibly naive. Some of us have seen the HC office
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:25pm
I never blamed anyone. I said that the HC office sometimes ends up with
CDV
10/13/15 1:42pm
You're looking at it from a contractual standpoint.
Bgash
10/13/15 1:53pm
RE: You're looking at it from a contractual standpoint.
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:56pm
And that's the problem
Smoke Monster
10/13/15 1:58pm
Are you quoting from the Pharicees
ZooBlue
10/13/15 1:57pm
The BYUicees
Smoke Monster
10/13/15 1:59pm
This is a copout and basically equivalent to someone saying,
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 2:15pm
The fact that so many BYU grads oppose the current application of the HC should
swingcat
10/13/15 2:19pm
This is a good question, and one of the main reasons I think the HC office needs
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 2:11pm
How about the HC office needs "rehab"?
ZooBlue
10/13/15 2:18pm
the wallpaper, the entryway carpet, the phone system.
CDV
10/13/15 2:24pm
I see what ya did there
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 2:33pm
It's incredibly hard to balance the demands of justice and mercy.
keylimesoda
10/13/15 2:45pm
Why do they have to balance? The 99 sheep; prodigal son; New Test => mercy?
ZooBlue
10/13/15 4:04pm
Why do they have to balance? The 99 sheep; prodigal son; New Test => mercy?
ZooBlue
10/13/15 4:56pm
Very true, but justice might be a bit too aggressive here
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 10:37pm
If there be no penalty, then the law is dead
keylimesoda
10/14/15 1:05am
Despite the rumors...
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:38pm
Makes sense. This is something I was wondering about
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 10:40pm
I am sure there are a few cases that were one and done
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:52pm
The last sentence is the issue. "Especially if your bishop is convinced of your
Dillinger
10/14/15 10:39am
Report problem with this ad
Posting on CougarBoard
In order to post, you will need to either
sign up
or
log in
.
Report problem with this ad