^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ is how the HC system is SUPPOSED to work...

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Oct 13, 2015
12:30:52pm

westcovina

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westcovina

Previous username: OKIEman88
New username: freakshow
Bio page: westcovina
Joined: Nov 15, 2014
Last login: Sep 13, 2017
Total posts: 0 (0 FO)

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Messages

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Going back to the honor code debate, Derik Stevenson asks an interesting

whoneedscorners?

10/13/15 9:26am

they can't... the same way a student wouldn't be able to.

kotacoug

10/13/15 9:27am

And that is wrong. BYU encourages dishonesty by their punitive actions.

messi

10/13/15 7:54pm

hahahhahaahhahahha

Bostonblue

10/13/15 9:12pm

You and your friends were role playing Dungeons & Dragons outside. None of these

messi

10/13/15 9:33pm

A very broad question. So many variables

SUAVO

10/13/15 9:28am

Really good question.

Hoax

10/13/15 9:28am

<< Deleted >>

Josef K

10/13/15 9:30am

Drug addictions and alcoholism doesn't get straighten out in a year. It is a

P-Boy Squad

10/13/15 9:33am

Unfortunately Derik has burned so many bridges he doesn't know there is a plan

MtnMan

10/13/15 9:32am

Do explain.

District

10/13/15 9:41am

Most Stakes run an Addiction Recovery Program

Cyclogist

10/13/15 9:47am

You would hope so. But Stevenson poses an interesting question.

District

10/13/15 9:54am

Well, the answer is

Cyclogist

10/13/15 10:20am

That's the textbook answer. Things don't always go according to the textbook

District

10/13/15 10:38am

Great discussion and thanks for your comment. What about nonmember students?

bluejammer

10/13/15 4:45pm

Derek has recently publicly stated he participates in the LDS ARP...

ZooBlue

10/13/15 12:50pm

do what Jamaal did. take a year off, or leave of absence,

Y05

10/13/15 5:11pm

meant for OP

Y05

10/13/15 5:12pm

<< Deleted >>

Y05

10/13/15 5:11pm

BYU is much more likely to work with someone if they come forward on their own

Colorado

10/13/15 9:33am

I think that's probably right, but the challenge is that some kids don't come

whoneedscorners?

10/13/15 9:35am

Always scary to own up to an addiction but the honor code does make it harder

Colorado

10/13/15 9:38am

but still a pretty scary risk to take, to be sure.

smokymountainrain

10/13/15 9:36am

That's what I've always felt was the glaring weakness of the HC. It is currently

Byron McNertney

10/13/15 9:34am

In some ways, LDS culture in general discourages repentance. There is a stigma

Colorado

10/13/15 9:57am

Exactly. My Bishop told me that if everyone had a red dot on their head that

District

10/13/15 10:42am

That explains why there's so much Utah gear lately-These truly are the last days

byutx

10/13/15 2:16pm

I believe that the harshest punishments are given to those who embarrass BYU

BYU Fan

10/13/15 9:58am

BYU shouldn't be embarrassed unless it's something pretty big like rape

District

10/13/15 10:44am

When students break the honor code and it becomes "news"

BYU Fan

10/13/15 11:20am

LOL - You draw the line at Rape?!?!? Good one.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 12:02pm

RE: That's what I've always felt was the glaring weakness of the HC. It is

JuanitaCougar

10/13/15 10:16am

Students are in the same boat.

mudpupper

10/13/15 9:36am

Even if you get caught sinning though.

District

10/13/15 9:44am

If a student is actively working with the bishop

Borg

10/13/15 9:48am

In my experience YEARS ago, the bishop would not do that.

kurda

10/13/15 10:32am

You realize that two steps in the repentance process are

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 10:42am

Of course. The penalty should and realistically is a spiritual one

Borg

10/13/15 12:29pm

Signing an endorsement and reporting a student to the HC office are

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 3:36pm

I know the counseling department at BYU isn't allowed to disclose to the honor

-C9-

10/13/15 9:42am

Probably because that would be against the law.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 9:59am

I know. I'm just stating what they probably use.

-C9-

10/13/15 10:14am

I interviewed for a job a few years ago at BYU and had an interview with a GA

midwestcoug

10/13/15 9:51am

You think losing your temple recommend is not consistent with repentance?

Bostonblue

10/13/15 10:00am

You could lose your recommend because you went to your bishop and

midwestcoug

10/13/15 10:04am

Not being able to enter the temple is a huge deal too, especially for weddings.

Bostonblue

10/13/15 10:09am

That discourages true repentance, encourages lying and cover up and is

Borg

10/13/15 10:09am

So if I lose my companies biggest customer - but am really sorry about it

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 10:14am

Perfect analogy.

AFCougK9

10/13/15 11:19am

No. The issue is disclosure. Do you want to punish employees for disclosing

frontrowcougar

10/13/15 11:41am

But Tax Cheats still pay a penalty.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 11:55am

Yes, and so do sinners. Even if they keep their job and/or stay enrolled.

frontrowcougar

10/13/15 12:53pm

Your posts have been especially awful today. Even for you.

messi

10/13/15 8:02pm

LOL - what a surprise that comments about person integrity

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 10:28pm

As a young man who grew up in Utah county I can tell you lying runs rampant

Rooney

10/13/15 6:18pm

I think you are confusing repentance with "lack of consequences".

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 10:10am

Right. If you commit a crime, one step in the repentance process

Bostonblue

10/13/15 10:25am

Nobody is saying there should be no consequence. The issue is whether

frontrowcougar

10/13/15 11:47am

This. As long as the person hasn't broken a law with serious crime

District

10/13/15 10:48am

Did Sarkesian break any laws? OR did he just embarrass SC?

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 11:56am

You really don't see the difference between Sarkisian's situation and a BYU

AFCougK9

10/13/15 12:55pm

<< Deleted >>

Bostonblue

10/13/15 3:16pm

I don't know. Tell me what the violation was? There are 100 possibilities here

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 3:41pm

You'd have the HC base its decision on the laws of Utah?

Bostonblue

10/13/15 3:18pm

Also - one of the worst sins you can commit as far as the Church is concerned

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 3:45pm

Standards are fine. But if a guy loses his job because

District

10/13/15 4:03pm

What are you talking about?

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:06pm

While harsh, it is part of the employment contract.

Cachanilla83

10/13/15 11:11am

So many issues with what you said.

Singcat

10/13/15 12:24pm

No not really that many issues.

Cachanilla83

10/13/15 12:45pm

You sound like a real stiff

District

10/13/15 4:07pm

How serious should I take it?

Cachanilla83

10/13/15 4:36pm

Well for starters...

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:41pm

Take it as serious as you want

District

10/13/15 4:54pm

You seem to be the poster child for what I say all the time

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 5:39pm

So as serious as you do? Or otherwise I'm a stiff?

Cachanilla83

10/13/15 6:42pm

My point

District

10/14/15 10:29am

Do you really think the church should base its standards on what is "normal"

Bostonblue

10/13/15 4:13pm

I believe that BYU is more than willing to help those who need help

BYU Fan

10/13/15 9:55am

That's just not how it works

cougarbob137

10/13/15 10:48am

Sorry, meant for OP

cougarbob137

10/13/15 10:48am

the problem is the Bishops are not consistent.... one Bishop is fine working

kotacoug

10/13/15 10:59am

This^^^

cfootball24

10/13/15 11:03am

Wish there was some way to lessen inconsistencies with bishops

District

10/13/15 11:18am

The problem is no one's perfect......

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 11:59am

yes and no

cougarbob137

10/13/15 12:42pm

You go for help through your Bishop and family. Sometimes

rockhound

10/13/15 11:13am

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ is how the HC system is SUPPOSED to work...

westcovina

10/13/15 12:30pm

Not the current honor code "system". The problem with the HC is with how it is

oonga

10/14/15 5:43am

Agreed. W

westcovina

10/14/15 2:31pm

Absolutely. How the honor code is enforced needs to be changed.

bvfcr

10/13/15 11:21am

There are things in place within the Program, but not public knowledge.

Katewot

10/13/15 11:22am

Simple. They go the BYU Counseling Center

Madmartigan

10/13/15 11:44am

Doubt they can. Mormon church doesn't work that way.

Singcat

10/13/15 12:12pm

Silly question if you ask me.

Ys_old_man

10/13/15 12:57pm

Don't you think that they already know that?

jellyfish

10/13/15 1:06pm

Hopefully

Ys_old_man

10/13/15 1:18pm

For just a minute, just consider what is at stake

jellyfish

10/13/15 1:44pm

RE: For just a minute, just consider what is at stake

Ys_old_man

10/13/15 1:59pm

Ask someone who has been through substance abuse

jellyfish

10/13/15 2:27pm

District

10/13/15 4:13pm

Some people feel that way in the streets of Detroit.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:26pm

This "example" is so far beyond reality it's absurd.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:35pm

BYU is a better place to get help? Based on what exactly?

CDV

10/13/15 4:36pm

Care based on gospel standards - not the worlds standards.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:39pm

Also,

Ys_old_man

10/13/15 1:23pm

You don't get it.

District

10/13/15 4:19pm

Without a doubt someone doesn't get it, but it's not Ys_old_man.

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:29pm

Hope you're never a bishop. Seems like you'll make sure and hold everyone

AFCougK9

10/14/15 10:56am

This is a problem with BYU in general (and not just drugs/alcohol)

Bgash

10/13/15 12:58pm

Amazing how many CBers are willing to assume the worst about the HC process.

panguitch

10/13/15 1:04pm

Unfortunately, many don't have to ASSUME anything. Many have seen examples.

Bgash

10/13/15 1:13pm

This comes across as incredibly naive. Some of us have seen the HC office work

CDV

10/13/15 1:23pm

RE: This comes across as incredibly naive. Some of us have seen the HC office

Ys_old_man

10/13/15 1:25pm

I never blamed anyone. I said that the HC office sometimes ends up with

CDV

10/13/15 1:42pm

You're looking at it from a contractual standpoint.

Bgash

10/13/15 1:53pm

RE: You're looking at it from a contractual standpoint.

Ys_old_man

10/13/15 1:56pm

And that's the problem

Smoke Monster

10/13/15 1:58pm

Are you quoting from the Pharicees

ZooBlue

10/13/15 1:57pm

The BYUicees

Smoke Monster

10/13/15 1:59pm

This is a copout and basically equivalent to someone saying,

Harrison0Yfan

10/13/15 2:15pm

The fact that so many BYU grads oppose the current application of the HC should

swingcat

10/13/15 2:19pm

This is a good question, and one of the main reasons I think the HC office needs

Harrison0Yfan

10/13/15 2:11pm

How about the HC office needs "rehab"?

ZooBlue

10/13/15 2:18pm

the wallpaper, the entryway carpet, the phone system.

CDV

10/13/15 2:24pm

I see what ya did there

Harrison0Yfan

10/13/15 2:33pm

It's incredibly hard to balance the demands of justice and mercy.

keylimesoda

10/13/15 2:45pm

Why do they have to balance? The 99 sheep; prodigal son; New Test => mercy?

ZooBlue

10/13/15 4:04pm

Why do they have to balance? The 99 sheep; prodigal son; New Test => mercy?

ZooBlue

10/13/15 4:56pm

Very true, but justice might be a bit too aggressive here

Harrison0Yfan

10/13/15 10:37pm

If there be no penalty, then the law is dead

keylimesoda

10/14/15 1:05am

Despite the rumors...

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 4:38pm

Makes sense. This is something I was wondering about

Harrison0Yfan

10/13/15 10:40pm

I am sure there are a few cases that were one and done

PolarisPrime

10/13/15 10:52pm

The last sentence is the issue. "Especially if your bishop is convinced of your

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