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Oct 13, 2015
1:58
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Smoke Monster
And that's the problem
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Smoke Monster
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Smoke Monster
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Mar 5, 2001
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Sep 14, 2016
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Time
Going back to the honor code debate, Derik Stevenson asks an interesting
whoneedscorners?
10/13/15 9:26am
they can't... the same way a student wouldn't be able to.
kotacoug
10/13/15 9:27am
And that is wrong. BYU encourages dishonesty by their punitive actions.
messi
10/13/15 7:54pm
hahahhahaahhahahha
Bostonblue
10/13/15 9:12pm
You and your friends were role playing Dungeons & Dragons outside. None of these
messi
10/13/15 9:33pm
A very broad question. So many variables
SUAVO
10/13/15 9:28am
Really good question.
Hoax
10/13/15 9:28am
<< Deleted >>
Josef K
10/13/15 9:30am
Drug addictions and alcoholism doesn't get straighten out in a year. It is a
P-Boy Squad
10/13/15 9:33am
Unfortunately Derik has burned so many bridges he doesn't know there is a plan
MtnMan
10/13/15 9:32am
Do explain.
District
10/13/15 9:41am
Most Stakes run an Addiction Recovery Program
Cyclogist
10/13/15 9:47am
You would hope so. But Stevenson poses an interesting question.
District
10/13/15 9:54am
Well, the answer is
Cyclogist
10/13/15 10:20am
That's the textbook answer. Things don't always go according to the textbook
District
10/13/15 10:38am
Great discussion and thanks for your comment. What about nonmember students?
bluejammer
10/13/15 4:45pm
Derek has recently publicly stated he participates in the LDS ARP...
ZooBlue
10/13/15 12:50pm
do what Jamaal did. take a year off, or leave of absence,
Y05
10/13/15 5:11pm
meant for OP
Y05
10/13/15 5:12pm
<< Deleted >>
Y05
10/13/15 5:11pm
BYU is much more likely to work with someone if they come forward on their own
Colorado
10/13/15 9:33am
I think that's probably right, but the challenge is that some kids don't come
whoneedscorners?
10/13/15 9:35am
Always scary to own up to an addiction but the honor code does make it harder
Colorado
10/13/15 9:38am
but still a pretty scary risk to take, to be sure.
smokymountainrain
10/13/15 9:36am
That's what I've always felt was the glaring weakness of the HC. It is currently
Byron McNertney
10/13/15 9:34am
In some ways, LDS culture in general discourages repentance. There is a stigma
Colorado
10/13/15 9:57am
Exactly. My Bishop told me that if everyone had a red dot on their head that
District
10/13/15 10:42am
That explains why there's so much Utah gear lately-These truly are the last days
byutx
10/13/15 2:16pm
I believe that the harshest punishments are given to those who embarrass BYU
BYU Fan
10/13/15 9:58am
BYU shouldn't be embarrassed unless it's something pretty big like rape
District
10/13/15 10:44am
When students break the honor code and it becomes "news"
BYU Fan
10/13/15 11:20am
LOL - You draw the line at Rape?!?!? Good one.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 12:02pm
RE: That's what I've always felt was the glaring weakness of the HC. It is
JuanitaCougar
10/13/15 10:16am
Students are in the same boat.
mudpupper
10/13/15 9:36am
Even if you get caught sinning though.
District
10/13/15 9:44am
If a student is actively working with the bishop
Borg
10/13/15 9:48am
In my experience YEARS ago, the bishop would not do that.
kurda
10/13/15 10:32am
You realize that two steps in the repentance process are
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:42am
Of course. The penalty should and realistically is a spiritual one
Borg
10/13/15 12:29pm
Signing an endorsement and reporting a student to the HC office are
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 3:36pm
I know the counseling department at BYU isn't allowed to disclose to the honor
-C9-
10/13/15 9:42am
Probably because that would be against the law.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 9:59am
I know. I'm just stating what they probably use.
-C9-
10/13/15 10:14am
I interviewed for a job a few years ago at BYU and had an interview with a GA
midwestcoug
10/13/15 9:51am
You think losing your temple recommend is not consistent with repentance?
Bostonblue
10/13/15 10:00am
You could lose your recommend because you went to your bishop and
midwestcoug
10/13/15 10:04am
Not being able to enter the temple is a huge deal too, especially for weddings.
Bostonblue
10/13/15 10:09am
That discourages true repentance, encourages lying and cover up and is
Borg
10/13/15 10:09am
So if I lose my companies biggest customer - but am really sorry about it
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:14am
Perfect analogy.
AFCougK9
10/13/15 11:19am
No. The issue is disclosure. Do you want to punish employees for disclosing
frontrowcougar
10/13/15 11:41am
But Tax Cheats still pay a penalty.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 11:55am
Yes, and so do sinners. Even if they keep their job and/or stay enrolled.
frontrowcougar
10/13/15 12:53pm
Your posts have been especially awful today. Even for you.
messi
10/13/15 8:02pm
LOL - what a surprise that comments about person integrity
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:28pm
As a young man who grew up in Utah county I can tell you lying runs rampant
Rooney
10/13/15 6:18pm
I think you are confusing repentance with "lack of consequences".
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:10am
Right. If you commit a crime, one step in the repentance process
Bostonblue
10/13/15 10:25am
Nobody is saying there should be no consequence. The issue is whether
frontrowcougar
10/13/15 11:47am
This. As long as the person hasn't broken a law with serious crime
District
10/13/15 10:48am
Did Sarkesian break any laws? OR did he just embarrass SC?
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 11:56am
You really don't see the difference between Sarkisian's situation and a BYU
AFCougK9
10/13/15 12:55pm
<< Deleted >>
Bostonblue
10/13/15 3:16pm
I don't know. Tell me what the violation was? There are 100 possibilities here
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 3:41pm
You'd have the HC base its decision on the laws of Utah?
Bostonblue
10/13/15 3:18pm
Also - one of the worst sins you can commit as far as the Church is concerned
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 3:45pm
No, that's not the standard anyone is saying BYU should reach for.
russkiejedi
10/13/15 3:53pm
District seems pretty dedicated to that standard.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:07pm
Standards are fine. But if a guy loses his job because
District
10/13/15 4:03pm
What are you talking about?
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:06pm
While harsh, it is part of the employment contract.
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 11:11am
So many issues with what you said.
Singcat
10/13/15 12:24pm
No not really that many issues.
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 12:45pm
You sound like a real stiff
District
10/13/15 4:07pm
How serious should I take it?
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 4:36pm
Well for starters...
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:41pm
Take it as serious as you want
District
10/13/15 4:54pm
You seem to be the poster child for what I say all the time
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 5:39pm
So as serious as you do? Or otherwise I'm a stiff?
Cachanilla83
10/13/15 6:42pm
My point
District
10/14/15 10:29am
Do you really think the church should base its standards on what is "normal"
Bostonblue
10/13/15 4:13pm
I believe that BYU is more than willing to help those who need help
BYU Fan
10/13/15 9:55am
That's just not how it works
cougarbob137
10/13/15 10:48am
Sorry, meant for OP
cougarbob137
10/13/15 10:48am
the problem is the Bishops are not consistent.... one Bishop is fine working
kotacoug
10/13/15 10:59am
This^^^
cfootball24
10/13/15 11:03am
Wish there was some way to lessen inconsistencies with bishops
District
10/13/15 11:18am
The problem is no one's perfect......
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 11:59am
yes and no
cougarbob137
10/13/15 12:42pm
You go for help through your Bishop and family. Sometimes
rockhound
10/13/15 11:13am
^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^ is how the HC system is SUPPOSED to work...
westcovina
10/13/15 12:30pm
Not the current honor code "system". The problem with the HC is with how it is
oonga
10/14/15 5:43am
Agreed. W
westcovina
10/14/15 2:31pm
Absolutely. How the honor code is enforced needs to be changed.
bvfcr
10/13/15 11:21am
There are things in place within the Program, but not public knowledge.
Katewot
10/13/15 11:22am
Simple. They go the BYU Counseling Center
Madmartigan
10/13/15 11:44am
Doubt they can. Mormon church doesn't work that way.
Singcat
10/13/15 12:12pm
Silly question if you ask me.
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 12:57pm
Don't you think that they already know that?
jellyfish
10/13/15 1:06pm
Hopefully
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:18pm
For just a minute, just consider what is at stake
jellyfish
10/13/15 1:44pm
RE: For just a minute, just consider what is at stake
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:59pm
Ask someone who has been through substance abuse
jellyfish
10/13/15 2:27pm
+1
District
10/13/15 4:13pm
Some people feel that way in the streets of Detroit.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:26pm
This "example" is so far beyond reality it's absurd.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:35pm
BYU is a better place to get help? Based on what exactly?
CDV
10/13/15 4:36pm
Care based on gospel standards - not the worlds standards.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:39pm
Also,
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:23pm
You don't get it.
District
10/13/15 4:19pm
Without a doubt someone doesn't get it, but it's not Ys_old_man.
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:29pm
Hope you're never a bishop. Seems like you'll make sure and hold everyone
AFCougK9
10/14/15 10:56am
This is a problem with BYU in general (and not just drugs/alcohol)
Bgash
10/13/15 12:58pm
Amazing how many CBers are willing to assume the worst about the HC process.
panguitch
10/13/15 1:04pm
Unfortunately, many don't have to ASSUME anything. Many have seen examples.
Bgash
10/13/15 1:13pm
This comes across as incredibly naive. Some of us have seen the HC office work
CDV
10/13/15 1:23pm
RE: This comes across as incredibly naive. Some of us have seen the HC office
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:25pm
I never blamed anyone. I said that the HC office sometimes ends up with
CDV
10/13/15 1:42pm
You're looking at it from a contractual standpoint.
Bgash
10/13/15 1:53pm
RE: You're looking at it from a contractual standpoint.
Ys_old_man
10/13/15 1:56pm
And that's the problem
Smoke Monster
10/13/15 1:58pm
Are you quoting from the Pharicees
ZooBlue
10/13/15 1:57pm
The BYUicees
Smoke Monster
10/13/15 1:59pm
This is a copout and basically equivalent to someone saying,
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 2:15pm
The fact that so many BYU grads oppose the current application of the HC should
swingcat
10/13/15 2:19pm
This is a good question, and one of the main reasons I think the HC office needs
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 2:11pm
How about the HC office needs "rehab"?
ZooBlue
10/13/15 2:18pm
the wallpaper, the entryway carpet, the phone system.
CDV
10/13/15 2:24pm
I see what ya did there
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 2:33pm
It's incredibly hard to balance the demands of justice and mercy.
keylimesoda
10/13/15 2:45pm
Why do they have to balance? The 99 sheep; prodigal son; New Test => mercy?
ZooBlue
10/13/15 4:04pm
Why do they have to balance? The 99 sheep; prodigal son; New Test => mercy?
ZooBlue
10/13/15 4:56pm
Very true, but justice might be a bit too aggressive here
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 10:37pm
If there be no penalty, then the law is dead
keylimesoda
10/14/15 1:05am
Despite the rumors...
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 4:38pm
Makes sense. This is something I was wondering about
Harrison0Yfan
10/13/15 10:40pm
I am sure there are a few cases that were one and done
PolarisPrime
10/13/15 10:52pm
The last sentence is the issue. "Especially if your bishop is convinced of your
Dillinger
10/14/15 10:39am
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