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Jun 24, 2021
2:55
:25
pm
NewMexiCoug
All-American
In 2011 Texas Tech and OK State were not Tier 1 research schools but the PAC was
willing to overlook that if they were part of a package deal that included Oklahoma and Texas.
They have since become Tier 1 but that was not true in 2011.
Baylor is still R2.
This message has been modified
Originally posted on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:55:25pm
Message modified by NewMexiCoug on Jun 24, 2021 at 2:59:36pm
Message modified by NewMexiCoug on Jun 24, 2021 at 3:04:50pm
Message modified by NewMexiCoug on Jun 24, 2021 at 3:05:12pm
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NewMexiCoug
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LeGrandBleu
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NewMexiCoug
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Time
Which school(s) in Pac12 are not research institutions like BYU?
CarolinaCoug
6/24/21 1:52pm
All the P-12 Schools are R1 research Universities. BYU is R2 I think?
NarfUte
6/24/21 1:55pm
Then how can we claim its about religion??
CarolinaCoug
6/24/21 2:02pm
Pullman, Washington. The Harvard of the West.
Iman23
6/24/21 2:04pm
You joke, but WSU has $357M in annual research expenditures. BYU has $45M.
AggieWeekendCougar
6/24/21 2:23pm
Pullman itself is a dump but WSU is a good school, especially for Ag
NarfUte
6/24/21 2:25pm
Maybe, only for Ag. Otherwise? Not so much.
Monomachos
6/24/21 2:29pm
WSU Engineering has 67% as much research expenditures as the whole of BYU
AggieWeekendCougar
6/24/21 2:44pm
See Rankings list in my other post below. Considering
Monomachos
6/24/21 4:42pm
They have a great veterinary school. Their geoscience programs are well…
Zastava
6/24/21 7:04pm
Decent? ok. Elite? as in a Stanford or any other top 30 school? Not even in the
Monomachos
6/24/21 11:09pm
No, they’re definitely not Stanford. They’re not even USC, UCLA, or UW.
Zastava
6/25/21 8:02am
Agreed. Those schools are at or near the $1B per year in research, and draw the
AggieWeekendCougar
6/25/21 9:58am
I did my undergrad at an Ivy and my post-grad at a consensus top 30…
Zastava
6/25/21 1:20pm
Many schools are very good in one or two disciplines but elite schools are good
Monomachos
6/25/21 3:08pm
WSU > BYU Yes, it's that simple.
Stev_ie
6/25/21 2:45am
It’s the lowest ranked PAC-12 school and #186 overall. Only one or two P5
rivercitycoug
6/24/21 2:42pm
You're only looking at undergrad, which is just a small part of what the
Scratch
6/25/21 9:09am
Except MBA, MPA and JD programs where BYU exceeds WSU.
Forzaitalia
6/25/21 4:37pm
What does it say when a school is top-70 in research spending and only top-200
rivercitycoug
6/24/21 2:45pm
That it takes its land-grant mission seriously while still being a major
AggieWeekendCougar
6/24/21 2:56pm
Are you just talking undergrad ranking or total university ranking?
Scratch
6/24/21 11:36pm
Because it is 100% the truth.
BYUtka
6/24/21 2:07pm
U til byu b2comes a tier1 we will nevwr know or until pac invutes
CarolinaCoug
6/24/21 3:17pm
Does any school have restrictions/demands like BYU does?
Z-Ute
6/24/21 4:36pm
Have you heard of cancel culture? “Micro aggressions” these other universities
Pretorian
6/25/21 7:49am
Consequences exist for your actions 🤷
Hotlanta
6/25/21 11:21am
That is exactly correct
Pretorian
6/25/21 11:30am
What am I missing hotlanta & krindor?
Pretorian
6/25/21 11:45am
Just eye-rolling at the sermonizing
krindorr
6/25/21 2:14pm
Yes, You are correct I was generalizing..
Pretorian
6/25/21 2:27pm
And this is why I eye-roll
krindorr
6/25/21 3:06pm
So if it isn’t on google it didn’t exist?
Pretorian
6/27/21 2:22pm
If you believe every source has covered it up, that raises a few issues
krindorr
6/27/21 6:54pm
It sounds like you still want to argue while saying the same thing?
Pretorian
6/28/21 9:15am
No, I did appreciate your acknowledgement
krindorr
6/28/21 10:19am
yes, it's called "woke culture" and it's at nearly every public and private ...
icecougar
6/25/21 10:48am
RE: Because it is 100% the truth.
jimmything
6/24/21 10:45pm
And back when they invited Utah they were trying to invite some BIG12 teams
DiamondMo
6/24/21 2:07pm
Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State are all R1.
The Chelsea Dagger
6/24/21 2:24pm
Texas in the past few years has gone from only two, to nine. It's an emphasis.
EtTuKalante
6/24/21 2:32pm
I’m just going off of memory that there was some sort of double standard
DiamondMo
6/24/21 2:44pm
Oklahoma State was granted Tier 1 status in 2019, so well after PAC expansion.
NewMexiCoug
6/24/21 3:04pm
In 2011 Texas Tech and OK State were not Tier 1 research schools but the PAC was
NewMexiCoug
6/24/21 2:55pm
<< Deleted >>
Everyman
6/24/21 2:26pm
Because forming an athletic conference based on research dollars is silly
KingDave
6/24/21 2:12pm
As you correctly point out, it is one of many aspects of a potential candidate
Everyman
6/24/21 2:29pm
I've long thought that ASU, OSU, and WSU are a better fit for the MWC
Doogal McCougar
6/24/21 3:33pm
So how much do research, enrollment, reputation, history, on-field performance,
Forzaitalia
6/24/21 6:58pm
I would guess that most presidents view athletics as a marketing tool
Everyman
6/24/21 9:49pm
Yes. Here are the R&D expenditures.
Everyman
6/24/21 2:20pm
Univ of Utah just recently joined the AAU in 2019...
icecougar
6/25/21 11:21am
were all current Pac12 members R1 Research Institutions when they joined?
icecougar
6/24/21 3:08pm
Carnegie did not begin publishing its classification until 1973.
Everyman
6/24/21 4:17pm
I remember reading once upon a time that BYU not being a member of the AAU was..
icecougar
6/25/21 10:40am
It's not an absolute requirement, but highly preferred
krindorr
6/25/21 10:51am
The University of Utah wasn't accepted into the AAU until 2019
icecougar
6/25/21 10:58am
Good catch; I'd guess they didn't love Utah's academics then, but at least R1
krindorr
6/25/21 11:04am
The U had been working on AAU membership for some time and it was pretty
Scratch
6/25/21 12:05pm
There are exactly 3 P5 universities without R1 classification
krindorr
6/24/21 10:10pm
I would have guessed Louisville.
Conan
6/25/21 10:25am
RE: There are exactly 3 P5 universities without R1 classification
Monomachos
6/25/21 10:57am
And TCU is who got into the Big 12 in our place
ColonelMustard
6/25/21 11:46am
In fairness TCU was way better on the field at the time
krindorr
6/25/21 11:50am
The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Learning, which gave
Monomachos
6/25/21 11:43am
<< Deleted >>
cvd6262
6/24/21 2:07pm
Given that athletics and research have little to do with each other it is rather
Monomachos
6/24/21 2:52pm
To me, that is the main point. Conference affiliations are about competing in Athletics. That's it really.
Turnpike Lane
6/24/21 2:57pm
BYU is a Research institution. In fact, the irony of it all is that....
LEDSFW
6/24/21 3:23pm
BYU has a dental school? Since when?
KingDave
6/24/21 5:49pm
I thought BYU did, maybe at Idaho / Hawaii. Doesn't matter, BYU IS a research...
LEDSFW
6/24/21 7:33pm
…
kos
6/25/21 8:18am
Really? BYU has one of the best engineering programs in the country? I know you
kos
6/24/21 6:22pm
Business Insider magazine rated BYU a top 50 nationwide engineering school.
Mitty
6/24/21 6:36pm
There's a difference between undergrad and graduate programs
MetaLearner
6/24/21 10:43pm
So you’re hanging your hat on…Business Insider’s Engineering rankings? Their
kos
6/25/21 8:16am
I have hired ME's, EE's, CS's, and MET's from BYU, MIT, UVU, etc.
DrYfire
6/24/21 7:10pm
There actually is a wide gap in terms of research.
MetaLearner
6/24/21 10:37pm
BYU is not an R1. And they don’t aspire to be.
zsmooth
6/25/21 9:36am
RE: BYU is a Research institution. In fact, the irony of it all is that....
Ute32
6/25/21 10:00am
BYU is a solid school with a handful of very well regarded undergraduate…
Zastava
6/25/21 1:31pm
When I interviewed there, there was a mantra of "primarily world class
AggieWeekendCougar
6/25/21 2:13pm
That’s more or less what I’ve heard from friends and family on staff.
Zastava
6/25/21 2:41pm
BYU does not have a veterinary program.
Saguaro
6/25/21 4:32pm
Just because BYU does research, it does not make it a "Research Institution".
BYUpsychom
6/25/21 5:19pm
BYU will not accept an invite from pac 12 because of religion..they want to take
coot20
6/24/21 3:46pm
RE: BYU will not accept an invite from pac 12 because of religion..they want to
jimmything
6/24/21 10:48pm
BYU will not be given an invite from the PAC 12 because of religious bigotry.
Sooner Cougar
6/25/21 2:32am
Yep and you didn't want that recruit anyway.....
Z-Ute
6/25/21 9:01am
People in Academia please explain why research matters when forming athletic
Forzaitalia
6/24/21 3:48pm
Because academia is the last bastion of the caste system in the U.S. If you want
IUCougar
6/24/21 4:22pm
Good explanation. Still not very logical
Dr T-bone
6/24/21 5:29pm
Precisely this. You are the company you keep in academia.
Zastava
6/24/21 7:23pm
But the question remains: Why does academic research matter at all for sports?
Reasonable1
6/24/21 9:20pm
You aren't missing anything except the club people want to belong to. It really
IUCougar
6/24/21 11:17pm
It’s plain old elitism. When I was a grad student at Harvard I was blown away at
BlooCoog
6/24/21 9:31pm
No matter the setting, Harvardites drop HU into the conversation w/in 15 mins
Forzaitalia
6/25/21 11:21am
Agreed 100%. It’s known as the H-bomb. It’s nauseating. I became allergic to it.
BlooCoog
6/25/21 4:21pm
I'll add that different conferences value this differently
krindorr
6/24/21 10:09pm
This is true. SEC and Big 12 don't care as much about academic reputation.
MetaLearner
6/24/21 10:32pm
I agree with this. Having worked at an ACC school, it is funny how they tried to
IUCougar
6/24/21 11:23pm
RE: Because academia is the last bastion of the caste system in the U.S. If you
icecougar
6/25/21 10:56am
Pretty sure than any conference would jump at bringing in a Bama or an Auburn
Monomachos
6/24/21 4:47pm
If research was the clear deciding factor, Tulane and Rice would be in the SEC
IUCougar
6/24/21 4:52pm
They are still R1 research institutions
zsmooth
6/25/21 9:38am
With very pedestrian academic reputations. Why does anyone believe
Monomachos
6/25/21 10:11am
That's a terrible analogy; it's more that they look at different things
krindorr
6/25/21 10:21am
Think of "R-1" being a car. Both Smart Cars and S-Class are cars. They can claim
Monomachos
6/25/21 10:52am
Totally agree with you there.
zsmooth
6/25/21 2:00pm
That's fair; still don't love the analogy, but I agree with the underlying point
krindorr
6/25/21 2:16pm
R-1s are Mercedes; R-2 is another car, you can choose.
Monomachos
6/25/21 3:09pm
RE: People in Academia please explain why research matters when forming athletic
Ute32
6/25/21 10:35am
Meh. Being in the same athletic conference does not mean they attract more
Monomachos
6/25/21 10:56am
Except you're wrong. Collaboration with the other P12 schools has increased
Scratch
6/25/21 12:09pm
Utah gets more research funding because it's in the PAC-12? Doubtful.
Monomachos
6/25/21 3:06pm
Utah joined the P12 in late 2011. Ever since 2013, the total amount of research
Scratch
6/25/21 3:22pm
RE: Utah gets more research funding because it's in the PAC-12? Doubtful.
Ute32
6/25/21 11:58pm
I think you have it backwards, research is the primary selection criterion for..
icecougar
6/25/21 11:06am
Gotta love how the call it research "expenditures" when it really is...
CougarThug
6/24/21 11:43pm
I think only like 3 P5 schools are not R1 research schools.
Blue Coat
6/25/21 2:20am
I think a bigger part of it is BYU wants to stay focused on undergraduates
MetaLearner
6/25/21 8:23am
Very true; not sure why grad research matters, but evidence shows it does
krindorr
6/25/21 9:12am
RE: Which school(s) in Pac12 are not research institutions like BYU?
Waddamy
6/25/21 1:46pm
I never knew how little BYU grads know about academic research
Punk Philosopher
6/25/21 6:07pm
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