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Jun 25, 2021
11:45:02am

Pretorian All-American

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jun 25, 2021 at 11:45:02am

Message modified by Pretorian on Jun 25, 2021 at 1:58:09pm

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Pretorian

Previous username: PoopTown LLC
Bio page: Pretorian
Joined: Oct 23, 2013
Last login: Jun 17, 2024
Total posts: 13,052 (19 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Which school(s) in Pac12 are not research institutions like BYU?

CarolinaCoug

6/24/21 1:52pm

All the P-12 Schools are R1 research Universities. BYU is R2 I think?

NarfUte

6/24/21 1:55pm

Then how can we claim its about religion??

CarolinaCoug

6/24/21 2:02pm

Pullman, Washington. The Harvard of the West.

Iman23

6/24/21 2:04pm

You joke, but WSU has $357M in annual research expenditures. BYU has $45M.

AggieWeekendCougar

6/24/21 2:23pm

Pullman itself is a dump but WSU is a good school, especially for Ag

NarfUte

6/24/21 2:25pm

Maybe, only for Ag. Otherwise? Not so much.

Monomachos

6/24/21 2:29pm

WSU Engineering has 67% as much research expenditures as the whole of BYU

AggieWeekendCougar

6/24/21 2:44pm

See Rankings list in my other post below. Considering

Monomachos

6/24/21 4:42pm

They have a great veterinary school. Their geoscience programs are well…

Zastava

6/24/21 7:04pm

Decent? ok. Elite? as in a Stanford or any other top 30 school? Not even in the

Monomachos

6/24/21 11:09pm

No, they’re definitely not Stanford. They’re not even USC, UCLA, or UW.

Zastava

6/25/21 8:02am

Agreed. Those schools are at or near the $1B per year in research, and draw the

AggieWeekendCougar

6/25/21 9:58am

I did my undergrad at an Ivy and my post-grad at a consensus top 30…

Zastava

6/25/21 1:20pm

Many schools are very good in one or two disciplines but elite schools are good

Monomachos

6/25/21 3:08pm

WSU > BYU Yes, it's that simple.

Stev_ie

6/25/21 2:45am

It’s the lowest ranked PAC-12 school and #186 overall. Only one or two P5

rivercitycoug

6/24/21 2:42pm

You're only looking at undergrad, which is just a small part of what the

Scratch

6/25/21 9:09am

Except MBA, MPA and JD programs where BYU exceeds WSU.

Forzaitalia

6/25/21 4:37pm

What does it say when a school is top-70 in research spending and only top-200

rivercitycoug

6/24/21 2:45pm

That it takes its land-grant mission seriously while still being a major

AggieWeekendCougar

6/24/21 2:56pm

Are you just talking undergrad ranking or total university ranking?

Scratch

6/24/21 11:36pm

Because it is 100% the truth.

BYUtka

6/24/21 2:07pm

U til byu b2comes a tier1 we will nevwr know or until pac invutes

CarolinaCoug

6/24/21 3:17pm

Does any school have restrictions/demands like BYU does?

Z-Ute

6/24/21 4:36pm

Have you heard of cancel culture? “Micro aggressions” these other universities

Pretorian

6/25/21 7:49am

Consequences exist for your actions 🤷

Hotlanta

6/25/21 11:21am

That is exactly correct

Pretorian

6/25/21 11:30am

What am I missing hotlanta & krindor?

Pretorian

6/25/21 11:45am

Just eye-rolling at the sermonizing

krindorr

6/25/21 2:14pm

Yes, You are correct I was generalizing..

Pretorian

6/25/21 2:27pm

And this is why I eye-roll

krindorr

6/25/21 3:06pm

So if it isn’t on google it didn’t exist?

Pretorian

6/27/21 2:22pm

If you believe every source has covered it up, that raises a few issues

krindorr

6/27/21 6:54pm

It sounds like you still want to argue while saying the same thing?

Pretorian

6/28/21 9:15am

No, I did appreciate your acknowledgement

krindorr

6/28/21 10:19am

yes, it's called "woke culture" and it's at nearly every public and private ...

icecougar

6/25/21 10:48am

RE: Because it is 100% the truth.

jimmything

6/24/21 10:45pm

And back when they invited Utah they were trying to invite some BIG12 teams

DiamondMo

6/24/21 2:07pm

Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State are all R1.

The Chelsea Dagger

6/24/21 2:24pm

Texas in the past few years has gone from only two, to nine. It's an emphasis.

EtTuKalante

6/24/21 2:32pm

I’m just going off of memory that there was some sort of double standard

DiamondMo

6/24/21 2:44pm

Oklahoma State was granted Tier 1 status in 2019, so well after PAC expansion.

NewMexiCoug

6/24/21 3:04pm

In 2011 Texas Tech and OK State were not Tier 1 research schools but the PAC was

NewMexiCoug

6/24/21 2:55pm

<< Deleted >>

Everyman

6/24/21 2:26pm

Because forming an athletic conference based on research dollars is silly

KingDave

6/24/21 2:12pm

As you correctly point out, it is one of many aspects of a potential candidate

Everyman

6/24/21 2:29pm

I've long thought that ASU, OSU, and WSU are a better fit for the MWC

Doogal McCougar

6/24/21 3:33pm

So how much do research, enrollment, reputation, history, on-field performance,

Forzaitalia

6/24/21 6:58pm

I would guess that most presidents view athletics as a marketing tool

Everyman

6/24/21 9:49pm

Yes. Here are the R&D expenditures.

Everyman

6/24/21 2:20pm

Univ of Utah just recently joined the AAU in 2019...

icecougar

6/25/21 11:21am

were all current Pac12 members R1 Research Institutions when they joined?

icecougar

6/24/21 3:08pm

Carnegie did not begin publishing its classification until 1973.

Everyman

6/24/21 4:17pm

I remember reading once upon a time that BYU not being a member of the AAU was..

icecougar

6/25/21 10:40am

It's not an absolute requirement, but highly preferred

krindorr

6/25/21 10:51am

The University of Utah wasn't accepted into the AAU until 2019

icecougar

6/25/21 10:58am

Good catch; I'd guess they didn't love Utah's academics then, but at least R1

krindorr

6/25/21 11:04am

The U had been working on AAU membership for some time and it was pretty

Scratch

6/25/21 12:05pm

There are exactly 3 P5 universities without R1 classification

krindorr

6/24/21 10:10pm

I would have guessed Louisville.

Conan

6/25/21 10:25am

RE: There are exactly 3 P5 universities without R1 classification

Monomachos

6/25/21 10:57am

And TCU is who got into the Big 12 in our place

ColonelMustard

6/25/21 11:46am

In fairness TCU was way better on the field at the time

krindorr

6/25/21 11:50am

The Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Learning, which gave

Monomachos

6/25/21 11:43am

<< Deleted >>

cvd6262

6/24/21 2:07pm

Given that athletics and research have little to do with each other it is rather

Monomachos

6/24/21 2:52pm

To me, that is the main point. Conference affiliations are about competing in Athletics. That's it really.

Turnpike Lane

6/24/21 2:57pm

BYU is a Research institution. In fact, the irony of it all is that....

LEDSFW

6/24/21 3:23pm

BYU has a dental school? Since when?

KingDave

6/24/21 5:49pm

I thought BYU did, maybe at Idaho / Hawaii. Doesn't matter, BYU IS a research...

LEDSFW

6/24/21 7:33pm

…

kos

6/25/21 8:18am

Really? BYU has one of the best engineering programs in the country? I know you

kos

6/24/21 6:22pm

Business Insider magazine rated BYU a top 50 nationwide engineering school.

Mitty

6/24/21 6:36pm

There's a difference between undergrad and graduate programs

MetaLearner

6/24/21 10:43pm

So you’re hanging your hat on…Business Insider’s Engineering rankings? Their

kos

6/25/21 8:16am

I have hired ME's, EE's, CS's, and MET's from BYU, MIT, UVU, etc.

DrYfire

6/24/21 7:10pm

There actually is a wide gap in terms of research.

MetaLearner

6/24/21 10:37pm

BYU is not an R1. And they don’t aspire to be.

zsmooth

6/25/21 9:36am

RE: BYU is a Research institution. In fact, the irony of it all is that....

Ute32

6/25/21 10:00am

BYU is a solid school with a handful of very well regarded undergraduate…

Zastava

6/25/21 1:31pm

When I interviewed there, there was a mantra of "primarily world class

AggieWeekendCougar

6/25/21 2:13pm

That’s more or less what I’ve heard from friends and family on staff.

Zastava

6/25/21 2:41pm

BYU does not have a veterinary program.

Saguaro

6/25/21 4:32pm

Just because BYU does research, it does not make it a "Research Institution".

BYUpsychom

6/25/21 5:19pm

BYU will not accept an invite from pac 12 because of religion..they want to take

coot20

6/24/21 3:46pm

RE: BYU will not accept an invite from pac 12 because of religion..they want to

jimmything

6/24/21 10:48pm

BYU will not be given an invite from the PAC 12 because of religious bigotry.

Sooner Cougar

6/25/21 2:32am

Yep and you didn't want that recruit anyway.....

Z-Ute

6/25/21 9:01am

People in Academia please explain why research matters when forming athletic

Forzaitalia

6/24/21 3:48pm

Because academia is the last bastion of the caste system in the U.S. If you want

IUCougar

6/24/21 4:22pm

Good explanation. Still not very logical

Dr T-bone

6/24/21 5:29pm

Precisely this. You are the company you keep in academia.

Zastava

6/24/21 7:23pm

But the question remains: Why does academic research matter at all for sports?

Reasonable1

6/24/21 9:20pm

You aren't missing anything except the club people want to belong to. It really

IUCougar

6/24/21 11:17pm

It’s plain old elitism. When I was a grad student at Harvard I was blown away at

BlooCoog

6/24/21 9:31pm

No matter the setting, Harvardites drop HU into the conversation w/in 15 mins

Forzaitalia

6/25/21 11:21am

Agreed 100%. It’s known as the H-bomb. It’s nauseating. I became allergic to it.

BlooCoog

6/25/21 4:21pm

I'll add that different conferences value this differently

krindorr

6/24/21 10:09pm

This is true. SEC and Big 12 don't care as much about academic reputation.

MetaLearner

6/24/21 10:32pm

I agree with this. Having worked at an ACC school, it is funny how they tried to

IUCougar

6/24/21 11:23pm

RE: Because academia is the last bastion of the caste system in the U.S. If you

icecougar

6/25/21 10:56am

Pretty sure than any conference would jump at bringing in a Bama or an Auburn

Monomachos

6/24/21 4:47pm

If research was the clear deciding factor, Tulane and Rice would be in the SEC

IUCougar

6/24/21 4:52pm

They are still R1 research institutions

zsmooth

6/25/21 9:38am

With very pedestrian academic reputations. Why does anyone believe

Monomachos

6/25/21 10:11am

That's a terrible analogy; it's more that they look at different things

krindorr

6/25/21 10:21am

Think of "R-1" being a car. Both Smart Cars and S-Class are cars. They can claim

Monomachos

6/25/21 10:52am

Totally agree with you there.

zsmooth

6/25/21 2:00pm

That's fair; still don't love the analogy, but I agree with the underlying point

krindorr

6/25/21 2:16pm

R-1s are Mercedes; R-2 is another car, you can choose.

Monomachos

6/25/21 3:09pm

RE: People in Academia please explain why research matters when forming athletic

Ute32

6/25/21 10:35am

Meh. Being in the same athletic conference does not mean they attract more

Monomachos

6/25/21 10:56am

Except you're wrong. Collaboration with the other P12 schools has increased

Scratch

6/25/21 12:09pm

Utah gets more research funding because it's in the PAC-12? Doubtful.

Monomachos

6/25/21 3:06pm

Utah joined the P12 in late 2011. Ever since 2013, the total amount of research

Scratch

6/25/21 3:22pm

RE: Utah gets more research funding because it's in the PAC-12? Doubtful.

Ute32

6/25/21 11:58pm

I think you have it backwards, research is the primary selection criterion for..

icecougar

6/25/21 11:06am

Gotta love how the call it research "expenditures" when it really is...

CougarThug

6/24/21 11:43pm

I think only like 3 P5 schools are not R1 research schools.

Blue Coat

6/25/21 2:20am

I think a bigger part of it is BYU wants to stay focused on undergraduates

MetaLearner

6/25/21 8:23am

Very true; not sure why grad research matters, but evidence shows it does

krindorr

6/25/21 9:12am

RE: Which school(s) in Pac12 are not research institutions like BYU?

Waddamy

6/25/21 1:46pm

I never knew how little BYU grads know about academic research

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