Seriously? What about this peer reviewed study about vaccines that don’t stop

Sep 22, 2021
11:56:14pm

bigbossbyu All-American

transmission? Is this a joke to you too?

“Vaccines that let the hosts survive but do not prevent the spread of the pathogen relax this selection, allowing the evolution of hotter pathogens to occur. This type of vaccine is often called a leaky vaccine. When vaccines prevent transmission, as is the case for nearly all vaccines used in humans, this type of evolution towards increased virulence is blocked. But when vaccines leak, allowing at least some pathogen transmission, they could create the ecological conditions that would allow hot strains to emerge and persist.”

Lays it out there that nearly all vaccines used in humans prevent transmission. The covid vaccine does not.

“Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts.”

Does this not sound like what is happening right now with Delta and those unvaccinated? And yet the unvaccinated are to blame? Seems to me like a LOT more research is needed. Or am I stupid for thinking that? Am I an idiot for thinking we don’t know all that there is to know about covid and these mRNA vaccines? Genuinely trying to learn here.

PubMed Central (PMC)

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Could some vaccines drive the evolution of more virulent pathogens? Conventional wisdom is that natural selection will remove highly lethal pathogens if host death greatly reduces transmission. Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission ...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516275/

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Messages

Author

Time

17 ICU patients died of COVID over the weekend in our ICU. One was a…

canofpicante

9/22/21 8:38am

In summation: Get vaccinated. Get healthy. In that order.

MarkWatney

9/22/21 8:40am

Love that 2nd point...COVID was an excellent opportunity to call more awareness

ordinary tri guy

9/22/21 11:13am

Imagine how great it would have been if Trump had said "This virus kills fat people, join me as I lose the weight I

HarlemCoug

9/22/21 11:18am

^^^like I said, people make it about politics^^^

ordinary tri guy

9/22/21 1:02pm

Or Fauci could have said it. The fact he didn’t is also telling.

BigEasyCougar

9/23/21 7:13am

While it is true that getting fit reduces your risk there are still too many

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 11:36am

Show us your data to back up "there are still too many cases among the fit"

RUNBYU1

9/22/21 12:56pm

I’m not here to argue that being obese isn’t a risk factor.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 1:53pm

Obesity was and is the number one indicator of hospitalization and death

ordinary tri guy

9/22/21 1:02pm

Exactly. Your comment is so on point. Get healthy, lose weight, get vaccinated.

RUNBYU1

9/22/21 1:08pm

Exactly. Do both.

oryguncoug

9/23/21 11:48am

It may have been >70% at one point for overweight/obese, but it's consistently >90% unvaccinated. THAT is the single

unctoothman

9/22/21 1:13pm

I don't understand how people can ignore this simple fact regardless of obesity

oryguncoug

9/23/21 5:26pm

It’s about vaccination not political agendas.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 1:58pm

While obesity may be the number one indicator, the one thing someone can do

Littlerich

9/22/21 3:18pm

Where are you getting that information? Link?

canofpicante

9/23/21 6:23pm

This is not true at all. Best single intervention is the vaccine. Full stop

MDub1

9/22/21 2:04pm

Yep…and people aren’t dying at a high rate

byuguns55

9/22/21 8:09pm

Vaccine question for CB docs? Is there any data on protection for those who

TailgateU

9/22/21 2:07pm

Great question!

RUNBYU1

9/22/21 2:53pm

No. There is no good data. This has not been studied.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:13pm

We need stories like this shared all over social media CB etc. Hopefully they can see these tragedies and change.

Baron

9/22/21 8:43am

So sad

Blueto

9/22/21 8:43am

What hospital do you work at?

IDAHO 4 Y

9/22/21 8:44am

Magic Valley in Twin

canofpicante

9/22/21 8:52am

I think up in sun valley had the worst per capita

johnnycarson

9/22/21 8:56am

Last year. This year it’s worse here.

canofpicante

9/22/21 9:38am

Was this just in Twin or from all of the St Lukes network throughout Idaho?

IDAHO 4 Y

9/22/21 9:52am

All of Idaho is struggling right now.

canofpicante

9/22/21 10:16am

It seems Twin has consistently had near the highest rates in the state.

Joe Banks

9/22/21 2:17pm

It has a huge catchment (probably 300k people). Most rural and uneducated.

canofpicante

9/22/21 2:38pm

Boise area is getting rocked as well. 🙁

Big Daddy D

9/23/21 12:41am

A recently retired doctor I know came out of retirement to help with the COVID

Scratch

9/22/21 8:47am

This has (unfortunately) been a recurring tragedy of the pandemic.

goodcleanfun

9/22/21 9:09am

So vaccination doesn’t do anything to protect them…

pegushin

9/22/21 9:46am

Dumb post of the day right here - already proven to give 5x-6x protection

FallingRock

9/22/21 9:56am

Come on, man.

durandal

9/22/21 10:01am

Pegushin's middle school science teacher was handing back his tests upside down, but he's still here spreading false

Alpi Gusto

9/22/21 10:03am

Can’t blame the unvaccinated for his death, that’s dishonest

pegushin

9/22/21 10:16am

If the unvaccinated would get the vaccine, spread of the disease would decrease and the vaccinated would be far less

durandal

9/22/21 10:34am

Oh please. If the vast majority of this country were vaccinated he'd be alive.

Scratch

9/22/21 10:39am

In the words of Sherman Potter…horse hockey

pegushin

9/22/21 10:54am

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make you right.

Byron McNertney

9/22/21 11:13am

I dont understand that unvaxed didn’t kill this doctor?

pegushin

9/22/21 11:33am

No - you don't understand that with fewer unvaxxed people he would never have...

Eddie

9/22/21 11:40am

Based on your posts in this thread, you don't understand vaccines at all.

Byron McNertney

9/22/21 11:57am

So try and help those that agree that a vaccinated person shouldn’t need

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 11:59am

All of them! That's how vaccines protect the "herd." This has literally been

Byron McNertney

9/22/21 12:18pm

Literally every vaccine. That’s how they work.

Jay Rick

9/22/21 12:24pm

What about natural immunity as well? So if 60-70% of the pop is vaccinated, and

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 12:37pm

Generally speaking, the way vaccines work is by reducing the number of “hosts”

Jay Rick

9/22/21 12:48pm

Thanks for the level headed response. Genuinely appreciate it. Would it be

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 1:05pm

Idk. Here’s my guess though - the increase in numbers is just an overall

Jay Rick

9/22/21 3:07pm

This vaccine does not contain virus and therefore cannot be spread.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 3:48pm

Good questions!

libertycoug

9/22/21 4:42pm

I'd take those facts about the Pfizer vaccine to a doctor and see what he thinks

greatbam

9/22/21 11:23pm

Delta is a beast. Imagine the hospitals right now if 70% were not vaccinated.

Hill4Heisman

9/22/21 1:25pm

The decision seems pretty easy to me when you look at the numbers:

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 5:17pm

Important study regarding natural immunity versus double vaccination

BYUlum

9/22/21 8:42pm

This has got to be a joke. I’m worried it isn’t.

inutero

9/22/21 8:48pm

Seriously? What about this peer reviewed study about vaccines that don’t stop

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 11:56pm

Here’s what the lead author of that study is to say about the COVID vaccines

ebv

9/23/21 3:46am

Super interesting that's for sure!

RUNBYU1

9/23/21 4:24pm

You're right, bro. This doctor got himself sick and killed himself...

HoustonBYUCoug

9/22/21 2:23pm

the vast majority in this country are vaccinated or or have natural immunity

gilmerbuckeye

9/22/21 11:48am

Isn't most of the country vaxxed already? 62% I believe that is a majority.

CObluezone

9/22/21 12:49pm

Just over 50% fully vaccinated

inutero

9/22/21 8:51pm

Adults. Not total pop

CObluezone

9/23/21 4:50am

The dude came out of retirement to help care for COVID patients.

Eddie

9/22/21 10:40am

RE: Can’t blame the unvaccinated for his death, that’s dishonest

TailgateU

9/22/21 10:48am

In this case, I think you can.

Alpi Gusto

9/22/21 11:38am

If 90% of his community got vaccinated he would’ve been golfing and not working.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 11:40am

“Someone died while wearing a seatbelt therefore seatbelts don’t save lives.”

Odysseus

9/22/21 10:17am

Pegushin, you eyeroll, but why?

(Private)

9/22/21 12:24pm

Ban him.

Lifer

9/22/21 11:23am

<< Deleted >>

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 12:45pm

The folks that run this board are anti vaccine sympathizers. He’s not getting

The Old Y

9/23/21 9:53am

RE: The folks that run this board are anti vaccine sympathizers. He’s not

SJS

9/23/21 9:58am

There are breakthrough cases and deaths. Here are the numbers in a good readable

canofpicante

9/22/21 3:01pm

That is the stupidest post of the day.

ditch

9/22/21 4:45pm

Again, how can anyone read this and shrug it off? I don't get it.

jkccoug

9/22/21 10:42am

Sad - people dying of COVID opens beds to care for more COVID patients.

Eddie

9/22/21 8:52am

Frankly, it comes down to selfishness. Had a woman I grew up with

beatnik

9/22/21 9:08am

Vaxxed people spread COVID as much as unvaxxed do.

HighHorse

9/22/21 9:15am

Symptomatic infected vaxxed people spread just as much. But it’s less likely to get infected, so no, you’re wrong.

zsmooth

9/22/21 9:18am

Don't try to bring facts to a battle of meme statements.

chago04

9/22/21 9:21am

Not quite true either. The vaccine doesn't make you less likely to get infected

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 9:23am

That's not true.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 9:25am

Further more

TN_Coug

9/22/21 9:26am

Antibodies fight the virus once the virus has entered your body.

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 9:40am

That's why they say you're not fully vaccinated until 2 wks after last dose.

beatnik

9/22/21 9:44am

Having the virus enter your body doesn't make you sick.

Eddie

9/22/21 9:45am

I never said "sick" in my post. I said infected. Confirmation bias is strong

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 9:59am

You are making a distinction between labeling claims from the manufacturer and what it does in the real world.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 9:54am

No, I'm making a distinction that what was said is not technically true.

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 10:09am

So are you changing your argument now?

TN_Coug

9/22/21 10:11am

Not in the slightest.

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 10:31am

There isn't an easy way to say this. You are 100% wrong.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 10:43am

I dunno - that seemed like a pretty easy way to say it.

Eddie

9/22/21 10:51am

Is there a difference between the virus and the disease, like HIV and AIDS? And

Jay Rick

9/22/21 10:54am

I don't think HIV/AIDS is a good comparison.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 11:31am

No, the vaccine is also effective at preventing infection. Between 4-8x less

chago04

9/22/21 9:25am

Actually - it does both.

Eddie

9/22/21 9:26am

Nope. It doesn't "prevent" it reduces.

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 9:51am

RE: Nope. It doesn't "prevent" it reduces.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 9:55am

Fluoride in water reduces tooth decay. It also prevents tooth decay. One is an epidemiological term, one is a mechanism.

unctoothman

9/22/21 11:18am

UNCtoother articulated it much better than I did. Thanks.

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 12:30pm

I keep seeing anti-vaxx people spread the same lies and half truths each day

WDaddy

9/22/21 9:25am

Shocking that the "do my own research" people misunderstand simple facts.

chago04

9/22/21 9:26am

Just like flat earthers.

Byron McNertney

9/22/21 9:28am

Hey. Don't bring up facts here. The earth is most definitely flat and vaccines are good.

letthewookieewin

9/22/21 9:33am

I live in central Indiana. I can confirm the earth's flatness.

TailgateU

9/22/21 9:38am

I know. I don’t know why i bothered.

zsmooth

9/22/21 9:39am

Is there actual proof of this or are you making it up? Did asymptomatic carriers

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 12:04pm

The studies show they do not shed the vaccine at the same rate as symptomatic.

chago04

9/22/21 1:31pm

Link?

Byron McNertney

9/22/21 9:19am

RE: Vaxxed people spread COVID as much as unvaxxed do.

dYrtbYkerYder

9/22/21 9:20am

Let’s assume you’re correct, unvaxxed should still stay home to reduce

Jay Rick

9/22/21 9:21am

There's more than just that to the story, however, isn't there?

Eddie

9/22/21 9:21am

Exactly. If there is a breakthrough case, the viral loads are similar, but that

dYrtbYkerYder

9/22/21 9:24am

The conservative talk show host must've left that part out.

dYrtbYkerYder

9/22/21 9:25am

This is the equivalent of bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Turnpike Lane

9/22/21 9:25am

A dull plastic butter knife.

chago04

9/22/21 9:35am

Not a single study out there supporting this.

Mtbcoug

9/22/21 9:57am

I'm getting real tired of anti-vaxx crap

FatThor

9/22/21 10:04am

False snd fraudulent. You should be banned for false info

Archaea

9/23/21 10:16pm

El Jefe and the mods are too weak for that. But, they'll suspend you for less.

beatnik

9/24/21 7:14am

It is the harsh truth

bluelands

9/22/21 11:29am

Wow, spoken like a true marxist!! Congrats Commrade.

CObluezone

9/22/21 12:54pm

My cousin just lost his FIL. My wife's best friend just lost her mom. A friend

TailgateU

9/22/21 9:26am

This week I lost my fifth friend to Covid. All of them unvaccinated.

(Private)

9/22/21 9:31am

Holy moly! Sorry, that has to be rough 🙁

jellyfish

9/22/21 9:46am

It is. This last one was a little harder.

(Private)

9/22/21 12:18pm

Is this true? I haven’t lost a single person, not just friend, that I actually

gilmerbuckeye

9/22/21 11:06pm

100% true. I am 42.

(Private)

9/23/21 12:07am

My neighbor is a 70+ obese diabetic and vaccinated.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 9:38am

This. You might still contract it, but at least you will likely survive.

jellyfish

9/22/21 9:49am

My wife is a respiratory therapist working in the ICU. More than 90% of all

Perseguir

9/22/21 9:49am

In Las Vegas ICU 95% are unvaccinated.

(Private)

9/22/21 10:23am

Sounds about right. What frustrates me most is yesterday we were going to lunch

Perseguir

9/22/21 11:11am

I thought we stopped intubation for covid because extubation rates were so bad?

EQD2

9/22/21 9:51am

Last resort

Turnpike Lane

9/22/21 9:52am

Well cut my life into pieces ...

MormonDevil

9/22/21 10:01am

Suffocation, no breathing

botticus

9/22/21 12:17pm

If a patient is gonna die and we have no other choice, then we give it a shot.

canofpicante

9/22/21 10:18am

Why? Better to die on a vent than off? Or do patients that sick still get off

EQD2

9/22/21 10:22am

Since March 2020 78% Intubated COVID patients have died. But in 22% it helped

canofpicante

9/22/21 2:34pm

So crazy, thanks so much for taking the time to post about this.

Blue for Life

9/22/21 10:02am

Eventually we need to adjust to the permanence of COVID. Healthcare needs to change.

Dr MoBYU

9/22/21 10:19am

I think we just need to respect the choice of the unvaccinated

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 11:48am

Likewise those that have adverse reactions to the vaccine should be withheld

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 12:25pm

A true man of the left. Pathetic bro!! Denying healthcare to unvaxxed???

CObluezone

9/22/21 12:59pm

Uh...you're basically advocating for universal healthcare.

Byron McNertney

9/22/21 1:15pm

This is actually a conservative idea.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 2:10pm

You are talking about denying treatment based on the disease itself.

CObluezone

9/22/21 2:47pm

You just said what I said using different words.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:00pm

Such a bad idea. Do we refuse treatment for overweight people with diabetes?

BigEasyCougar

9/22/21 1:23pm

When was the last time hospitals ran out of space because hundreds of DKA

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 2:15pm

Let’s do that with drug overdoses, DUIs, etc.

Blue Print

9/22/21 2:22pm

Finally, someone who gets it.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:02pm

So don’t treat them? Wow that’s a slippery slope

BYU '80

9/22/21 7:20pm

Idaho has gone to crisis standards of care because of a choice made by 50%

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 9:51pm

I live in Idaho and denying care to people based on their choices

BYU '80

9/22/21 10:02pm

I get what you are saying.

jellyfish

9/23/21 9:02am

Is it tyrannical and inhumane?

StalwartBraveTrue

9/23/21 10:24am

Idaho is under crisis standards as of a week ago. We Quite literally do not have

canofpicante

9/23/21 11:43am

If we quit taking care of folks who didn’t take care of themselves then we

canofpicante

9/22/21 7:58pm

I completely agree.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 10:01pm

Yep. Lead by example. But I don’t see anyone telling those that are obese to be

bigbossbyu

9/22/21 10:26pm

Obesity is entirely different.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/23/21 11:02am

To your point, obesity is a far bigger health epidemic in the United States

I'mBatman

9/23/21 1:12pm

If you can read this and shrug it off, I honestly don't get you.

jkccoug

9/22/21 10:40am

Are you responding to the OP? (Edit)

BYU'01

9/22/21 12:20pm

I didn't see the unedited version, but yes I did mean that the OP should not be

jkccoug

9/22/21 1:32pm

And what percentage of those dying are vaccinated compared to unvaccinated?

vabeachcoug

9/22/21 12:01pm

We’ll since vax started we’ve had 1 death of a fully vaccinated lady. She had

canofpicante

9/22/21 2:47pm

<< Deleted >>

TailgateU

9/22/21 12:51pm

Just curious on the average age and general physical health of those that died?

Thrill

9/22/21 1:35pm

From the article

jellyfish

9/22/21 1:38pm

Not in Idaho, but we had 3 patients under 28 die in our hospital over the weekend. A 4th who was thirty died at home.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 2:16pm

That’s not the question he asked. Co-morbidities for the 30 yr old?

CObluezone

9/22/21 2:50pm

Yep. Almost all certainly had serious health issues or were overweight to obese

RUNBYU1

9/22/21 2:56pm

Do you suggest that they don’t need our help and protection because they’re

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:08pm

He specifically asked if the people were generally young. I was answering that part of the question.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 3:38pm

Here’s the crazy thing. The effectiveness of the vaccine doesn’t change by age.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:11pm

I’m curious why you feel this matters?

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:05pm

Not sure about the average. But it’s younger this year. At one point every…

canofpicante

9/23/21 9:16am

I also live in the Magic Valley. I keep hearing people say nurses and doctors

Forest Green

9/22/21 4:30pm

96% of doctors got the vaccine.

TN_Coug

9/22/21 4:35pm

Even if true,I don’t think it says anything about the dangers of the vaccine.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 4:41pm

I totally agree. I’m interested to know how many docs/nurses in MV are actually

Forest Green

9/22/21 8:58pm

Anyone saying this is adding on “and doctors” to make their story sound

Jay Rick

9/22/21 5:12pm

Good point.

Forest Green

9/22/21 8:58pm

It’s now mandated. If they’re working. They got it.

canofpicante

9/23/21 9:18am

Good. I though I heard they extended that though…

Forest Green

9/23/21 10:51am

Fat and old and immune compromised people die

Tsisquan

9/22/21 5:57pm

So why not let anti-vaxxers die of it too. No more admissions for them.

StalwartBraveTrue

9/22/21 6:21pm

Old like a 30 year old who just gave birth?

Northwest Cougar

9/22/21 6:31pm

Crazy part: It’s a different demographic this year. Lots of folks in 40s, 50s,

canofpicante

9/22/21 6:38pm

RE: 17 ICU patients died of COVID over the weekend in our ICU. One was a…

ffcougarfan

9/22/21 6:22pm

Before there were covid19 vaccines, it was an entirely different situation

Belboz

9/22/21 7:57pm

<< Deleted >>

Joe Banks

9/22/21 8:36pm

🙁

cougarmikey

9/22/21 11:09pm

I hear you man. I appreciate you and your efforts. I agree with everything you

Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

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