You are playing russian roulette. Odds are you will be fine, but when things go

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Dec 7, 2019
12:53:14pm

Backcountry All-American

You are playing russian roulette. Odds are you will be fine, but when things go

Wrong, they can go very very wrong. Its absolutely not worth the gamble imo. No chance I would ever be comfortable doing it anywhere outside of a hospital. I just dont see the advantage. I see the whole issue as comparable to the essential oils thing.

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Backcountry

Previous username: The Lone Wolf
New username: Simple Jack
Bio page: Backcountry
Joined: Sep 6, 2008
Last login: Aug 8, 2023
Total posts: 0 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

My stepdaughter is newly pregnant, and she and her boyfriend are leaning heavily

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:38am

<< Deleted >>

Kauai

12/7/19 11:38am

Somehow I hit post too soon. Fixed it. 🙂

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:42am

Yeah I wasn't sure where this was headed 🙂

Kauai

12/7/19 11:43am

we had a scare on one of ours. not sure a birthing center would have given us similar positive outcome. Too risky IMO

BlueFrog

12/7/19 11:44am

If she doesn't have risk factors, it's totally fine. Great option.

Phasor

12/7/19 11:42am

If it’s her first I’d go with an obstetrician, but that’s me

pegushin

12/7/19 11:42am

Two of my kids did that. It was fine.

SandYFan

12/7/19 11:42am

Wow. Either you’re joking or I was way, way off on your age

cougarnerd

12/7/19 1:18pm

If she is young and healthy seems like a fine idea. What is the concern?

BYUtka

12/7/19 11:46am

My wife is concerned about complications that could arise, and my stepdaughter

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:49am

Your wife’s concern is valid, but in the end it’s not her choice.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 12:31pm

👍🏻 Yes, we agree it is completely their choice and will support what they

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 2:48pm

A girl in my parents’ ward used one. There were complications that the midwife

flavordave

12/7/19 11:46am

This is why I always suggest hospital

trom2foot3

12/7/19 11:51am

Agree. My wife had a midwife for our third, but at the hospital to be safe.

Narfin'Coug

12/7/19 12:07pm

This is why I don’t understand the whole midwife thing. People

kotacoug

12/7/19 12:29pm

I consider those that want to deliver this way about on par with anti vaxer’s...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:41pm

My sister almost died in childbirth because of an infection she got from

Iman23

12/7/19 1:01pm

The hospital isn’t the only place you can get an infection so those odds are

kotacoug

12/7/19 1:17pm

We started out with a midwife clinic. It was a disaster. I wanted to go with an

trom2foot3

12/7/19 11:50am

I appreciate all these responses. Keep them coming!

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:56am

No experience with it, but seems like a terrible idea tbh

Odysseus

12/7/19 11:57am

^^^ one of those weirdos who prefers his computer over a typewriter.

Zach Morris

12/7/19 12:19pm

Isn’t using a midwife similar to a farmer preferring a horse and plow over a tractor?

Zach Morris

12/7/19 11:57am

We did it once and my mom did that, plus had two at home too

jkccoug

12/7/19 11:57am

I must point out that not all midwives are created equal. We had one once that

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:00pm

I don't get the "they are next to a hospital" argument in favor of midwifes. I

vegasnative

12/7/19 2:54pm

Deleted. Tried to give a response to the OP

demon_llama

12/7/19 11:59am

your wife knew more after 4 babies

WorfoSAUR

12/7/19 12:04pm

Big difference between watching labor and laboring.

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:07pm

No chance that’s true...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:29pm

<< Deleted >>

demon_llama

12/7/19 12:50pm

Riiiggffhhhttt.... she knew more than professionals who deliver

kotacoug

12/7/19 12:31pm

It's fine. There are risks, but also risks in hospitals IMO

runnincoug

12/7/19 12:00pm

Would she consider a midwife at a hospital?

durandal

12/7/19 12:02pm

We did our first two and our fourth with midwives at a hospital but

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:04pm

Yeah, that isn't too surprising. That's sort of the appeal of birthing centers, right? They're just more comfortable and

durandal

12/7/19 12:27pm

This.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 12:33pm

Honestly asking, not trying to troll you, if you are going this route, why not

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:00pm

🤷‍♂️ You'd have to ask my wife for that. I don't know all the reasons why she went that route. I will say this though:

durandal

12/7/19 3:06pm

That's why my wife did that: she wanted the midwife who'd be there throughout.

Narfin'Coug

12/7/19 4:23pm

Midwives are great and used all over the world. we had a kid at home. No issues.

Iman23

12/7/19 12:03pm

Make sure it’s one who can perform a Csection if needed

I'mBatman

12/7/19 12:03pm

Are there midwifes that can perform C-Sections? I've never heard of that.

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:01pm

I think that’s his point...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:02pm

We've done midwife and OB...

annapcoug

12/7/19 12:03pm

Personal experience: My mom would be dead, twice. My son might would also likely

Powerbait DPM studnt

12/7/19 12:04pm

Are they gonna ride their horse and buggy to get there?

12/7/19 12:07pm

My Sister did this while living in a rural area a couple hours outside St. Louis

carcoug

12/7/19 12:11pm

95% chance nothing goes wrong, but for the 5% doctor/hospital is the only way

mudpupper

12/7/19 12:19pm

My wife is a labor and delivery rn and she tells me...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:23pm

This. Not worth the risk.

Ironhide

12/7/19 12:36pm

Not worth the risk IMO.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 12:35pm

What is more important, your social comfort or 2 lives?

mudpupper

12/7/19 12:36pm

In the year 2019, there is no reason to do something stupid like this.

Game Changer

12/7/19 12:47pm

The data shows better outcomes on average for low risk pregnancies OUTSIDE

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:49pm

Sure. And vaccines cause autism, right? Somebody said so, so it must be true

Game Changer

12/7/19 12:51pm

No, REAL data, such as this article from Scientific American

runnincoug

12/7/19 12:56pm

It seems midwives are trained much better outside the US. Maybe that’s a potential fix.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 1:09pm

So, you missed the mark on a few points:

Game Changer

12/7/19 2:38pm

Umm, regarding #2, did you happen to look at the NY Times article?

Phasor

12/7/19 2:50pm

Right. So what does that tell us about the following scenarios?

Game Changer

12/7/19 3:06pm

First of all, I was just pointing out that your point #2 is directly

Phasor

12/7/19 3:21pm

Seems to be some obvious selection bias here. Basically you are gonna pick out

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:14pm

What data is that?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:53pm

see my post above for some of the data and thoughts why

runnincoug

12/7/19 12:56pm

I just quickly looked at a couple papers on the topic.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:09pm

I’m sure if they know going into the birth that there is a high risk...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:16pm

And I actually don’t have that big an issue with using a midwife...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:23pm

I agree with that. I feel like you are essentially paying the hospital $30,000

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:29pm

So the question becomes is the risk worth it.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 1:08pm

My opinion hasn’t changed

5150man

12/7/19 12:50pm

We had all seven with midwives and at home. No issues.

niqmadu

12/7/19 12:51pm

You are playing russian roulette. Odds are you will be fine, but when things go

Backcountry

12/7/19 12:53pm

My wife and 3 of my kids would be dead.

coolblue

12/7/19 12:53pm

We used midwifes, but at the hospital. Such a better experience...

Alister Mackenzie

12/7/19 1:12pm

Yes, the stats show that OBs use more interventions for low-risk births.

Phasor

12/7/19 1:19pm

I’ll tell you why I believe this is false...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:29pm

The stats are what they are. You may not like them, but they are not false.

Phasor

12/7/19 1:39pm

You have actual evidence they’re trying to make a tee time...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:47pm

C'mon man, don't be obtuse.

Phasor

12/7/19 1:59pm

That’s your claim not mine...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:47pm

LOL, SweetBabyG's post proves I'm right

Phasor

12/7/19 2:56pm

How does her making a claim “prove” anything?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:00pm

LMGTFY:

Phasor

12/7/19 3:11pm

I didn’t see those qualifications, I checked the posts, please provide a link

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:17pm

Maybe he deleted it for privacy reasons.

Phasor

12/7/19 3:25pm

It doesn’t exist on here...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:26pm

It did. BM him if you want to know.

Phasor

12/7/19 3:40pm

Oh I’m sure he’d post an affirmation of it was true...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 4:28pm

yeah, sorry I deleted my post

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 4:47pm

Or else you didn’t make a truthful or relevant post...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:05pm

Sure, that is a possibility.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 5:35pm

It is of course but I would imagine you have some basis for your POV

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:46pm

Ok so a blog post lacking in statistics or other accreditation

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:19pm

Yep, blog post.

SJS

12/7/19 3:21pm

Not sure how he thinks that provides any evidence of anything.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:27pm

It's a known phemonenon.

Phasor

12/7/19 3:34pm

And here it is from the CDC:

Phasor

12/7/19 3:38pm

Ok, so what?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:43pm

Oy vey

Phasor

12/7/19 3:54pm

Yea, midwives don’t do c-sections.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:57pm

Yes, so the point is that:

Phasor

12/7/19 4:03pm

I’m sure midwives don’t want to hand off their patients to a doctor...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 4:18pm

So to summarize? Phasor is saying that OB's have a higher c/s rate but midwives self report 5x higher mortality rate?

5150man

12/7/19 5:33pm

I don’t think he admitted that midwives have that 5x higher mortality rate...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:54pm

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

5150man

12/7/19 6:29pm

When you look at stats by time of day, around weekends, and around

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 2:01pm

<< Deleted >>

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 2:10pm

I did just now asked her...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:54pm

And speaking of my “expert wife” ad you called her...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:58pm

I’m a doc (not Obgyn) and I actually do review OB OR schedules

SJS

12/7/19 3:04pm

I agree, and I'm glad most hospitals are practicing appropriately these days.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 5:03pm

Do you have links to your published work?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:08pm

Yep, I have them.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 5:31pm

Will you provide them?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:54pm

Nope.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 6:15pm

Well then it kinda looks like maybe it’s not real.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 6:25pm

There's a mass of evidence showing a history of unnecessary c section in the US.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:40pm

Is there a mass of evidence showing that it’s resulting in more negative

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:48pm

Yes, C-section results in higher maternal deaths.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:57pm

And there are stats for this?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:00pm

Yes.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 2:11pm

Ok, I’m waiting.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:54pm

And even disregarding mortality, it's a major surgery with a much longer

Phasor

12/7/19 2:07pm

Big study in 2016 showed that nurse midwives had 5x the neonatal fatality rate that docs did

SJS

12/7/19 2:33pm

This is just anti doctor speak. Coming from someone who has regularly been

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:29pm

The legal issues are also a problem, but the CDC stats do show that doctors

Phasor

12/7/19 3:56pm

Here's my issue with midwifes. There is a pattern that I have seen with them.

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:58pm

I could very easily see this being true, unfortunately.

Iman23

12/7/19 4:07pm

None of your business and I think midwives are stupid

HansMoleman

12/7/19 6:00pm

Step daughter needs to start making better decisions. Now is the time.

12/7/19 6:40pm

Our first two were born in hospital, all traditional like. Horrible experiences

ICBlue

12/8/19 1:42am

Pretty scary data here: MUCH higher risk out of hospital.

12/8/19 11:03pm

Have her watch this video:

12/8/19 11:03pm

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