What data is that?

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Dec 7, 2019
12:53:55pm

CoachSpeak All-American

What data is that?

And what are these “better outcomes”? Does that mean the women just liked the experience better or does that mean there was a better health outcome?

I won’t lie I am extremely dubious of a claim that the outcome as it relates to the overall health of mother and baby is better for birthing centers and home births than in a hospital. I’d really like to see that data.

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CoachSpeak

Bio page: CoachSpeak
Joined: Aug 25, 2013
Last login: Aug 18, 2020
Total posts: 23,002 (2,610 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

My stepdaughter is newly pregnant, and she and her boyfriend are leaning heavily

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:38am

<< Deleted >>

Kauai

12/7/19 11:38am

Somehow I hit post too soon. Fixed it. 🙂

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:42am

Yeah I wasn't sure where this was headed 🙂

Kauai

12/7/19 11:43am

we had a scare on one of ours. not sure a birthing center would have given us similar positive outcome. Too risky IMO

BlueFrog

12/7/19 11:44am

If she doesn't have risk factors, it's totally fine. Great option.

Phasor

12/7/19 11:42am

If it’s her first I’d go with an obstetrician, but that’s me

pegushin

12/7/19 11:42am

Two of my kids did that. It was fine.

SandYFan

12/7/19 11:42am

Wow. Either you’re joking or I was way, way off on your age

cougarnerd

12/7/19 1:18pm

If she is young and healthy seems like a fine idea. What is the concern?

BYUtka

12/7/19 11:46am

My wife is concerned about complications that could arise, and my stepdaughter

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:49am

Your wife’s concern is valid, but in the end it’s not her choice.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 12:31pm

👍🏻 Yes, we agree it is completely their choice and will support what they

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 2:48pm

A girl in my parents’ ward used one. There were complications that the midwife

flavordave

12/7/19 11:46am

This is why I always suggest hospital

trom2foot3

12/7/19 11:51am

Agree. My wife had a midwife for our third, but at the hospital to be safe.

Narfin'Coug

12/7/19 12:07pm

This is why I don’t understand the whole midwife thing. People

kotacoug

12/7/19 12:29pm

I consider those that want to deliver this way about on par with anti vaxer’s...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:41pm

My sister almost died in childbirth because of an infection she got from

Iman23

12/7/19 1:01pm

The hospital isn’t the only place you can get an infection so those odds are

kotacoug

12/7/19 1:17pm

We started out with a midwife clinic. It was a disaster. I wanted to go with an

trom2foot3

12/7/19 11:50am

I appreciate all these responses. Keep them coming!

Loon to the Moon

12/7/19 11:56am

No experience with it, but seems like a terrible idea tbh

Odysseus

12/7/19 11:57am

^^^ one of those weirdos who prefers his computer over a typewriter.

Zach Morris

12/7/19 12:19pm

Isn’t using a midwife similar to a farmer preferring a horse and plow over a tractor?

Zach Morris

12/7/19 11:57am

We did it once and my mom did that, plus had two at home too

jkccoug

12/7/19 11:57am

I must point out that not all midwives are created equal. We had one once that

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:00pm

I don't get the "they are next to a hospital" argument in favor of midwifes. I

vegasnative

12/7/19 2:54pm

Deleted. Tried to give a response to the OP

demon_llama

12/7/19 11:59am

your wife knew more after 4 babies

WorfoSAUR

12/7/19 12:04pm

Big difference between watching labor and laboring.

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:07pm

No chance that’s true...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:29pm

<< Deleted >>

demon_llama

12/7/19 12:50pm

Riiiggffhhhttt.... she knew more than professionals who deliver

kotacoug

12/7/19 12:31pm

It's fine. There are risks, but also risks in hospitals IMO

runnincoug

12/7/19 12:00pm

Would she consider a midwife at a hospital?

durandal

12/7/19 12:02pm

We did our first two and our fourth with midwives at a hospital but

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:04pm

Yeah, that isn't too surprising. That's sort of the appeal of birthing centers, right? They're just more comfortable and

durandal

12/7/19 12:27pm

This.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 12:33pm

Honestly asking, not trying to troll you, if you are going this route, why not

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:00pm

🤷‍♂️ You'd have to ask my wife for that. I don't know all the reasons why she went that route. I will say this though:

durandal

12/7/19 3:06pm

That's why my wife did that: she wanted the midwife who'd be there throughout.

Narfin'Coug

12/7/19 4:23pm

Midwives are great and used all over the world. we had a kid at home. No issues.

Iman23

12/7/19 12:03pm

Make sure it’s one who can perform a Csection if needed

I'mBatman

12/7/19 12:03pm

Are there midwifes that can perform C-Sections? I've never heard of that.

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:01pm

I think that’s his point...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:02pm

We've done midwife and OB...

annapcoug

12/7/19 12:03pm

Personal experience: My mom would be dead, twice. My son might would also likely

Powerbait DPM studnt

12/7/19 12:04pm

Are they gonna ride their horse and buggy to get there?

12/7/19 12:07pm

My Sister did this while living in a rural area a couple hours outside St. Louis

carcoug

12/7/19 12:11pm

95% chance nothing goes wrong, but for the 5% doctor/hospital is the only way

mudpupper

12/7/19 12:19pm

My wife is a labor and delivery rn and she tells me...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:23pm

This. Not worth the risk.

Ironhide

12/7/19 12:36pm

Not worth the risk IMO.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 12:35pm

What is more important, your social comfort or 2 lives?

mudpupper

12/7/19 12:36pm

In the year 2019, there is no reason to do something stupid like this.

Game Changer

12/7/19 12:47pm

The data shows better outcomes on average for low risk pregnancies OUTSIDE

jkccoug

12/7/19 12:49pm

Sure. And vaccines cause autism, right? Somebody said so, so it must be true

Game Changer

12/7/19 12:51pm

No, REAL data, such as this article from Scientific American

runnincoug

12/7/19 12:56pm

It seems midwives are trained much better outside the US. Maybe that’s a potential fix.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 1:09pm

So, you missed the mark on a few points:

Game Changer

12/7/19 2:38pm

Umm, regarding #2, did you happen to look at the NY Times article?

Phasor

12/7/19 2:50pm

Right. So what does that tell us about the following scenarios?

Game Changer

12/7/19 3:06pm

First of all, I was just pointing out that your point #2 is directly

Phasor

12/7/19 3:21pm

Seems to be some obvious selection bias here. Basically you are gonna pick out

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:14pm

What data is that?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 12:53pm

see my post above for some of the data and thoughts why

runnincoug

12/7/19 12:56pm

I just quickly looked at a couple papers on the topic.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:09pm

I’m sure if they know going into the birth that there is a high risk...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:16pm

And I actually don’t have that big an issue with using a midwife...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:23pm

I agree with that. I feel like you are essentially paying the hospital $30,000

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:29pm

So the question becomes is the risk worth it.

spugeddy24

12/7/19 1:08pm

My opinion hasn’t changed

5150man

12/7/19 12:50pm

We had all seven with midwives and at home. No issues.

niqmadu

12/7/19 12:51pm

You are playing russian roulette. Odds are you will be fine, but when things go

Backcountry

12/7/19 12:53pm

My wife and 3 of my kids would be dead.

coolblue

12/7/19 12:53pm

We used midwifes, but at the hospital. Such a better experience...

Alister Mackenzie

12/7/19 1:12pm

Yes, the stats show that OBs use more interventions for low-risk births.

Phasor

12/7/19 1:19pm

I’ll tell you why I believe this is false...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:29pm

The stats are what they are. You may not like them, but they are not false.

Phasor

12/7/19 1:39pm

You have actual evidence they’re trying to make a tee time...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:47pm

C'mon man, don't be obtuse.

Phasor

12/7/19 1:59pm

That’s your claim not mine...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:47pm

LOL, SweetBabyG's post proves I'm right

Phasor

12/7/19 2:56pm

How does her making a claim “prove” anything?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:00pm

LMGTFY:

Phasor

12/7/19 3:11pm

I didn’t see those qualifications, I checked the posts, please provide a link

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:17pm

Maybe he deleted it for privacy reasons.

Phasor

12/7/19 3:25pm

It doesn’t exist on here...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:26pm

It did. BM him if you want to know.

Phasor

12/7/19 3:40pm

Oh I’m sure he’d post an affirmation of it was true...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 4:28pm

yeah, sorry I deleted my post

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 4:47pm

Or else you didn’t make a truthful or relevant post...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:05pm

Sure, that is a possibility.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 5:35pm

It is of course but I would imagine you have some basis for your POV

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:46pm

Ok so a blog post lacking in statistics or other accreditation

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:19pm

Yep, blog post.

SJS

12/7/19 3:21pm

Not sure how he thinks that provides any evidence of anything.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:27pm

It's a known phemonenon.

Phasor

12/7/19 3:34pm

And here it is from the CDC:

Phasor

12/7/19 3:38pm

Ok, so what?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:43pm

Oy vey

Phasor

12/7/19 3:54pm

Yea, midwives don’t do c-sections.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 3:57pm

Yes, so the point is that:

Phasor

12/7/19 4:03pm

I’m sure midwives don’t want to hand off their patients to a doctor...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 4:18pm

So to summarize? Phasor is saying that OB's have a higher c/s rate but midwives self report 5x higher mortality rate?

5150man

12/7/19 5:33pm

I don’t think he admitted that midwives have that 5x higher mortality rate...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:54pm

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

5150man

12/7/19 6:29pm

When you look at stats by time of day, around weekends, and around

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 2:01pm

<< Deleted >>

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 2:10pm

I did just now asked her...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:54pm

And speaking of my “expert wife” ad you called her...

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:58pm

I’m a doc (not Obgyn) and I actually do review OB OR schedules

SJS

12/7/19 3:04pm

I agree, and I'm glad most hospitals are practicing appropriately these days.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 5:03pm

Do you have links to your published work?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:08pm

Yep, I have them.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 5:31pm

Will you provide them?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 5:54pm

Nope.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 6:15pm

Well then it kinda looks like maybe it’s not real.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 6:25pm

There's a mass of evidence showing a history of unnecessary c section in the US.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:40pm

Is there a mass of evidence showing that it’s resulting in more negative

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 1:48pm

Yes, C-section results in higher maternal deaths.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 1:57pm

And there are stats for this?

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:00pm

Yes.

SweetBabyG

12/7/19 2:11pm

Ok, I’m waiting.

CoachSpeak

12/7/19 2:54pm

And even disregarding mortality, it's a major surgery with a much longer

Phasor

12/7/19 2:07pm

Big study in 2016 showed that nurse midwives had 5x the neonatal fatality rate that docs did

SJS

12/7/19 2:33pm

This is just anti doctor speak. Coming from someone who has regularly been

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:29pm

The legal issues are also a problem, but the CDC stats do show that doctors

Phasor

12/7/19 3:56pm

Here's my issue with midwifes. There is a pattern that I have seen with them.

vegasnative

12/7/19 3:58pm

I could very easily see this being true, unfortunately.

Iman23

12/7/19 4:07pm

None of your business and I think midwives are stupid

HansMoleman

12/7/19 6:00pm

Step daughter needs to start making better decisions. Now is the time.

12/7/19 6:40pm

Our first two were born in hospital, all traditional like. Horrible experiences

ICBlue

12/8/19 1:42am

Pretty scary data here: MUCH higher risk out of hospital.

12/8/19 11:03pm

Have her watch this video:

12/8/19 11:03pm

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