You've obviously never read Supreme Court decisions on social issues

Wow! No white people?

Choke

6/30/16 1:00am

There's a 6 foot tall version of the graph we make.

mantis mutu

6/30/16 1:04am

Not sure 6 feet would do it.

Choke

6/30/16 1:05am

Black admissions are up though

OU Cougar

6/30/16 3:18am

More complicated than lip service

BringYourUltimate

6/30/16 4:04am

That's my point

jomo

6/30/16 8:27am

You need to show this compared to applicants...

whiteninja

6/30/16 4:58am

Makes too much sense. Let's disregard this approach

cougarmanguy

6/30/16 6:01am

But also they could look for ways to encourage qualified ones to apply

spinner

6/30/16 7:24am

BYU is making *some* effort to do this, it's not enough

jomo

6/30/16 7:58am

How do you know? Your graphic only shows enrollment, not recruitment efforts.

bretonnia

6/30/16 9:34am

I don't claim to know how they run things -- just looking at results

jomo

7/1/16 10:42am

No data on applications, but that's a bit of problem anyway. Research shows you

DrBYU

6/30/16 7:28am

^^^ THIS ^^^

jomo

6/30/16 7:57am

I am not sure you quite know what you're talking about. BYU has bent over

Bob Vance

6/30/16 6:15am

This is a common attitude/opinion... it's flawed in general

jomo

6/30/16 8:11am

I'm a little curious about where you're getting your info about how the BYU

Extra Biscuits

6/30/16 8:34am

Same with my Rez buddy. Got into BYU with very mediocre qualifications.

JAGA97

6/30/16 8:44am

I think you are looking at some results, and making some pretty wild assumptions

Bob Vance

6/30/16 1:01pm

I see where you are going, but another factor is this--with the increased standards

thaws

6/30/16 1:05pm

Not a complete picture

Shawarma

6/30/16 6:43am

RE: Not a complete picture

jomo

6/30/16 8:21am

You clearly don't know all the parameters of the discussion

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 9:14am

You clearly don't understand the abysmal reality of enrollment now...

jomo

6/30/16 9:31am

I agree. The projections are really head swimming, but if they

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 12:53pm

Great post... I would just say that I have never heard

jomo

6/30/16 1:53pm

I don't administrators say this per se, but it's probably

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 3:32pm

I agree this is what has happened, I believe in many ways it's a good thing..

jomo

7/1/16 1:58pm

If anyone was even remotely familiar with the Pathways program

kalifi

6/30/16 3:07pm

Bingo!

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 3:25pm

Can either of you explain more about pathways and how it might help

jomo

7/1/16 10:44am

Link below.

El Fuego

7/1/16 10:56am

It makes a difference for ALL youth/members. ANYONE can benefit from it

kalifi

7/2/16 11:21am

Are we not concerned about why the numbers are declining? BYU should just add

WDaddy

6/30/16 6:46am

We should absolutely concerned with why the numbers are declining

jomo

6/30/16 8:26am

I am one of the data points in your table so I understand your point very well.

WDaddy

6/30/16 8:32am

I think we agree more than we disagree

jomo

6/30/16 8:40am

Tell me where I said SOAR is solving the problem & that it's enough. You need to

WDaddy

6/30/16 8:47am

Yeah the affirmative action approach has worked so well elsewhere

CougarThug

6/30/16 7:05am

Well, in fact, it has done a lot of good

jomo

6/30/16 9:06am

let the people with the best scores in. Don't even look at race.

sgriff

6/30/16 7:13am

It's often less about race and more about circumstances. A kid who grew up in a

Byron McNertney

6/30/16 7:28am

So since we are getting into stereotypes, then....

byu1

6/30/16 7:53am

Does admitting a kid from a tough situation with poor scores fix stuff?

CosmoK

6/30/16 8:41am

More whites are poor than any other race. No help for them?

sgriff

6/30/16 8:42am

BYU admissions takes as much info as they can gather into consideration.

Byron McNertney

6/30/16 9:52am

But the reports/stats are by race. . .

CosmoK

6/30/16 9:54am

This. Hits the nail on the head

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 9:18am

I feel the same way

WorfoSAUR

6/30/16 7:43am

AA is about the fact that not everybody starts with the same advantages

spinner

6/30/16 7:49am

This is an excellent observation. We can't

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 8:34am

Ok. But there are more whites on welfare than anyone else. No help for them?

sgriff

6/30/16 8:41am

Maybe whites on welfare REALLY ARE lazy and unqualified?

CosmoK

6/30/16 9:29am

I'm pretty sure that exact argument gets advanced on CB on the regular. People

TaiJuan

6/30/16 9:39am

More by proportion or by sheer numbers?

spinner

6/30/16 11:59am

Does admitting disadvantaged students some how remove their disadvantage?

CosmoK

6/30/16 8:55am

No, but success with graduation rates of football players at

jomo

6/30/16 8:59am

I don't know that I would have picked Fball players to make the point. . .

CosmoK

6/30/16 9:27am

I wasn't picking on football players, just those who are admitted

jomo

6/30/16 9:47am

It can help, yes. You know, giving the underdog a chance and such

spinner

6/30/16 12:01pm

Exactly

jomo

6/30/16 8:56am

It's total guesswork and doesn't work.

Y'zFan

6/30/16 9:22am

I disagree. This thoughtful post I think does a good job rebutting:

jomo

6/30/16 12:43pm

The guesswork I am referring to is your guesss that

Y'zFan

6/30/16 1:21pm

Not working? Why?

jomo

6/30/16 2:20pm

We need to do something, but those things are the opposite of

Y'zFan

6/30/16 6:00pm

Not wanting to argue -- seriously curious as to what real solutions you see

jomo

7/1/16 11:00am

If one is serious about helping people succeed, then we have to get

Y'zFan

7/1/16 5:11pm

Thanks for the post...

jomo

7/1/16 10:39pm

I can appreciate economic disadvantage, but race does not necessarily show

Roadrunner70

6/30/16 9:35am

This sounds fair...on the surface

MormonThug

6/30/16 8:15am

This is pretty much what we are doing... it's not working

jomo

6/30/16 8:48am

Citation? If you are saying URMs aren't given preferential admissions, I need a

TaiJuan

6/30/16 8:50am

If BYU *is* lowering the bar for minorities...

jomo

6/30/16 9:14am

Don't editorialize. Show the numbers. Link them. Conclusory assertions are not

TaiJuan

6/30/16 9:24am

Apparently Natural-Gas-Man has something to say to you...

jomo

6/30/16 10:00am

So your reference is message board poster that you derisively mocked in the last

TaiJuan

6/30/16 10:06am

You pretty much made my point...

sgriff

6/30/16 12:38pm

It's as if it correlates with when Utah football got better.

TaiJuan

6/30/16 7:33am

Part of it has to do with the CES and their current setup

Seasider

6/30/16 7:49am

Healthy number of transfers to Provo every year

Shawarma

6/30/16 8:21am

How does BYU-Hawaii effect these numbers?

CougarinOZ

6/30/16 7:50am

It doesn't seem to be a factor at all.

jomo

6/30/16 8:33am

This just in.... most colleges are whiter than the general populous they pull from

HarlemCoug

6/30/16 8:21am

This simply isn't true. Just look at Pac-10 Institutions.

jomo

6/30/16 8:29am

Most. Yes, the UC schools are unique. They are significantly more Asian than

TaiJuan

6/30/16 8:46am

You'll also find that Asian students are passed up in the UC system for less

WDaddy

6/30/16 8:51am

Hence, why we call UCLA

JOPE

6/30/16 9:07am

totally disagree, BYU is to serve the best students, not anyone less. BYU -I and

Nat Gas Man

6/30/16 8:30am

Spot on! They have different, but overlapping aims

CougarVikingSeaSider

6/30/16 9:20am

Look at how silly what you are saying is...

jomo

6/30/16 9:43am

just give up, you have no idea what you are talking about. I spent years on the

Nat Gas Man

6/30/16 9:51am

Apparently JAGA97 and JohnnyComeLately disagree...

jomo

6/30/16 10:04am

A football team is not improved by diversity. It's improved by good players.

OPINIONS

6/30/16 8:30am

I'll make you a deal, implement affirmative action in pro sports first, then

kcca

6/30/16 8:37am

^^^BINGO^^^

CougarThug

6/30/16 9:16am

My experience as a Native American at BYU

JohnnyComeLately

6/30/16 8:44am

Just out of curiosity... what years were you a student?

jomo

6/30/16 8:53am

Graduated 2007, started in 2001, took time off for mission.

JohnnyComeLately

6/30/16 9:23am

RE: Graduated 2007, started in 2001, took time off for mission.

WDaddy

6/30/16 9:31am

LOL yes but in my defense i did serve a mission trip

JohnnyComeLately

6/30/16 9:51am

It's the years just after you were admitted

jomo

6/30/16 9:36am

UNC had a pretty effective intervention for football players

Diepkloof

6/30/16 10:43am

Your approach would be the best, but it would be a nightmare to implement.

El Fuego

6/30/16 10:50am

I did the mentoring and the doctor I worked under published the study

JohnnyComeLately

6/30/16 11:21am

If you want to introduce BYU admissions to a hundred Tongan friends of yours

HenderCoug

6/30/16 8:52am

The nursing program is stupid hard to get into, my wife did not get in

JOPE

6/30/16 10:27am

Lies, damned lies, and statistics...

Jasbo

6/30/16 10:01am

Bravo. Nice fact checking.

sgriff

6/30/16 10:16am

Damn lies indeed. The numbers came from BYU.

jomo

6/30/16 10:21am

But this analysis is all you:

TaiJuan

6/30/16 10:46am

That doesn't change the fact that your analysis is wrong.

Jasbo

6/30/16 11:05am

Not any more incorrect than your bogus interpretation... let's go

jomo

6/30/16 11:32am

Not a BYU alum nor have ever lived in Utah or other LDS enclave. Your comment

Jasbo

6/30/16 11:41am

Read

jomo

6/30/16 12:27pm

Pretty sad and disappointed at the responses here... no wonder things are bad

jomo

6/30/16 11:02am

Why? Because the facts don't support your distorted analysis?

Jasbo

6/30/16 11:07am

This is the secular equivalent of "at least I am going to Heaven." When you cant

TaiJuan

6/30/16 11:26am

You have an agenda in what you are hearing... sorry I can't help you

jomo

6/30/16 11:33am

Your agenda seems to be to condemn BYU though you can't back it up.

Jasbo

6/30/16 11:35am

Not condemning BYU. Love BYU. We can do better.

jomo

6/30/16 11:50am

Keep up name calling. You've already conceded that you didn't have numbers to

TaiJuan

6/30/16 11:46am

Name calling? Wow, what reality distortion field are you living in?

jomo

6/30/16 12:12pm

Let me talk to you about facts. The only trend that actually indicates a

TaiJuan

6/30/16 12:48pm

Finally a reasonable response...

jomo

6/30/16 12:54pm

OK. I gave you some very credible data for the last 5 years. I invited you to

TaiJuan

6/30/16 1:02pm

Ah, so you just want to nitpick at a tertiary point...

jomo

6/30/16 1:21pm

It's not turnabout. It's called burden shifting. You made a proposition. I asked

TaiJuan

6/30/16 1:46pm

What do you propose? Because if you have nothing to add, you should keep quiet

Dissenter

6/30/16 12:38pm

Read your own advice... follow... repeat

jomo

6/30/16 12:55pm

Jeez man, you are on one.

Dissenter

6/30/16 12:58pm

Why, because of how easy it is to show you are out to lunch?

Bob Vance

6/30/16 1:10pm

The inconvenient truth...

kcca

6/30/16 1:16pm

An unfortunate opinion.. I'll call your thinktank and raise you a supreme court

jomo

6/30/16 1:36pm

This is great... I give you conclusions drawn from actual data/research

kcca

6/30/16 3:21pm

Whats funny, is he uses the Supreme Court...

Dissenter

6/30/16 4:41pm

You've obviously never read Supreme Court decisions on social issues

jomo

7/1/16 10:49am

Valid point, but don't mistake think-tanks for science

jomo

7/1/16 10:48am

I agree, be skeptical of them, be skeptical of peer reviewed material.

kcca

7/1/16 12:49pm

Posting on CougarBoard