No. It’s not.

Aug 12, 2018
1:00:59am

Josef K All-American

No. It’s not.

My sister in law had an abortion as a teen. She struggled with it her whole life. Been forgiven by the lord, which has been repeatedly explained to her by her priesthood leaders. But she can’t forgive herself because of people without any authority to make such statements telling her it’s murder.

It’s not murder. I’m sure if it were, the church would have very clearly stated as much. It’s a terrible sin but it’s not murder and it’s handled differently by the church.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Aug 12, 2018 at 1:00:59am

Message modified by Josef K on Aug 12, 2018 at 1:02:45am

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Josef K

Previous username: UCB Coug
New username: Jay Kay
Bio page: Josef K
Joined: Jan 12, 2011
Last login: Jun 9, 2020
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Messages

Author

Time

POLL: Which of these universities is least tolerant of others' beliefs?

chilango

8/10/18 6:47am

unfortunately it is BYU in a landslide

BlueFrog

8/10/18 6:49am

That’s absurd. All have areas that are off limits. BYU just has a

gwalker

8/10/18 7:20am

what beliefs get you kicked out of Berkeley? Which ones at BYU?

BlueFrog

8/10/18 7:23am

Conservatism

pegushin

8/10/18 7:42am

I know several life-long conservatives who went to Berkeley and graduated.

Jurisprudence

8/10/18 8:24am

Likely had to hide it/ be in the closet

pegushin

8/10/18 8:39am

BYU undergrad who went to grad school at Berkeley

thejimmer

8/10/18 9:46am

Wulp, they needed someone to mock and make fun of

Borg

8/10/18 2:39pm

I work with a number of them.

chilango

8/10/18 10:45am

were they the types to keep their heads down and not rock the boat or were they.

icecougar

8/10/18 1:45pm

The question is about beliefs, not activities.

jkccoug

8/10/18 4:36pm

When I graduated, Obama was the commencement speaker. It was right after he had

Extra Biscuits

8/10/18 10:09am

That's ridiculous

chazen

8/10/18 3:46pm

I really take exception with how you ask that. Clearly it’s. BYU because of the way you phrased the question. Yet BYU

SouthernBlueBlood

8/10/18 6:50am

Yet so far, the majority of respondents have not selected BYU. In any case, what

chilango

8/10/18 6:55am

BYU also doesn't bill itself as the center of free speech like Berkley does. Yet

Dynasty1

8/10/18 7:03am

Since Free Speech is not accepted at BYU & everyone dresses, looks, & thinks the

U2wearblue

8/11/18 8:48am

This is such a false narrative. This kinda thinking gets old.

Beetdiggercoug

8/11/18 5:33pm

I think BYU's positions differ more from societal 'norms' than Cal or Stanford

unctoothman

8/10/18 7:03am

No one gets kicked out of Berkeley for their views

AxelDC

8/10/18 7:12am

Point out when a BYU student Got expelled for beliefs alone... that doesn’t

Pretorian

8/10/18 7:30am

Exactly my reasoning.

unctoothman

8/10/18 8:57am

well put, the teacher is intolerant for failing a kid for cheating... perfect.

Pretorian

8/10/18 10:38am

RE: Point out when a BYU student Got expelled for beliefs alone... that

chilango

8/10/18 11:06am

Which of the "September Six" were BYU students when that happened?

CougarThug

8/10/18 12:14pm

Maybe you missed the sentence in my post that says: "Not students, but some of

chilango

8/10/18 12:24pm

Well professors and students are quite different and from what I can see

Pretorian

8/10/18 12:48pm

When discussing intolerance, I'm not sure why students would matter any more

chilango

8/10/18 1:48pm

This discussion boils down to the rights (if any) of private institutions...

Pretorian

8/10/18 2:05pm

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, but the fact that an institution is

chilango

8/10/18 9:57pm

If I change my religious beliefs from anything other than Mormonism I get booted

Jezza

8/10/18 11:53am

This has been hashed out a billion times here. Ecclesiastical endorsements

Jay Rick

8/10/18 5:49pm

It’s been hashed out bc you said so? I disagree. I was there not what I saw

Pretorian

8/10/18 5:52pm

It’s not hashed because I said so. It’s hashed out because it’s bees discussed

Jay Rick

8/10/18 10:19pm

Ok, hashed out..... I have not doubt you're right it's been heavily discussed

Pretorian

8/12/18 6:56pm

No one?

shatter2

8/10/18 9:23am

It is not getting kicked out for your beliefs, it is based upon acting according

BYU I Bleed Blue

8/10/18 9:25am

A Stanford one:

shatter2

8/10/18 9:29am

As public universities, I do not believe Cal and Stanford have the legal right

here's to hoping

8/10/18 9:58am

Stanford is not a public university. It is private, similar to BYU.

Greg Kite's 'stache

8/10/18 10:23am

I stand corrected. Thanks. It doesn't change my point about Cal.

here's to hoping

8/10/18 1:20pm

But what about conservative speakers who are prevented from speaking.

JmThms

8/10/18 11:13am

Link? Unless you're talking about white supremacists?

chilango

8/10/18 11:21am

The problem is that everyone that is against open borders is labeled

Dynasty1

8/10/18 12:08pm

That is a ludicrous claim

Jezza

8/10/18 12:11pm

Not only is it not “ludicrous” it is barely an exaggeration...

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 12:18pm

...

Jezza

8/10/18 12:24pm

Link?

chilango

8/10/18 12:29pm

He would have to provide tons of links to back that up. The fact

Jezza

8/10/18 12:32pm

You really need a link to know that....

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 1:25pm

Your continued evasion tells me you got nothin’. Amiright?

chilango

8/10/18 9:36pm

Nope...

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 10:32pm

You might have noticed that as a non-donor I don’t have access to the political

chilango

8/11/18 5:25am

I'm talking about actual white supremacists, such as Richard Spencer who was

chilango

8/10/18 12:29pm

So it took a lawsuit on his part for them to allow him to speak?

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 1:15pm

Yes, the universities involved (not Cal or Stanford, to my knowledge, but

chilango

8/10/18 9:28pm

Hmmm.......

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 10:33pm

Is Ben Shapiro a white supremacist?

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 12:16pm

I don't know who that is. Are you saying he wanted to speak at Berkeley and they

chilango

8/10/18 12:27pm

You don’t know who Ben Shapiro is??

SactOWNit

8/10/18 12:40pm

I don't think Chilango watches Fox News. Or hangs out with any conservative

JmThms

8/10/18 2:12pm

I don’t watch Fox News either...

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 3:07pm

You don't know who Ben Shapiro is?

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 1:21pm

we all have blind spots, no need to make person attacks, I didn't know stanford

here's to hoping

8/10/18 2:20pm

That’s what I said. I think I vaguely recognize the name, maybe, but have no

chilango

8/10/18 9:33pm

Antifa groups at Berkeley think that physically attacking conservatives is a

AF Cougar

8/10/18 1:09pm

link

here's to hoping

8/10/18 1:55pm

Thanks, this is much more helpful, and accurate, than the nonsense posted above

chilango

8/10/18 9:38pm

No, just publicly ridiculed and ostracized for sharing them honestly.

zonacougar

8/10/18 11:25am

And no one ever gets socially ostracized at BYU for expressing unpopular

Jay Rick

8/10/18 5:51pm

Oh gosh. The ignorance displayed on this board.

chazen

8/10/18 3:51pm

Cal doesn’t have beliefs. Neither does Stanford.

mikecito

8/10/18 7:03am

Yep, difference is that Cal and Stanford may choose not to collaborate

GoodUte

8/10/18 7:13am

False, completely false....

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 9:44am

Read the post again bro

GoodUte

8/10/18 3:09pm

I read it, it’s still false...

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 4:32pm

Your rebuttal was 100% in agreement with what I posted.

GoodUte

8/10/18 10:27pm

You cannot laud UC and Stanford for not discriminating who attends, since they

here's to hoping

8/10/18 10:06am

Wrong. BYU does not “limit attendance based on active sexual orientation!”

Lolo

8/10/18 7:15am

That’s not true

mikecito

8/10/18 7:19am

Fair enough, but abiding by the Law of Chasity, and not permitting attendance

Lolo

8/10/18 7:25am

Which gives me an honest question... why would anyone want to go to or try to go

Pretorian

8/10/18 7:38am

That is a good question

mikecito

8/10/18 7:44am

That is all well and good but if you want BYU, there is an HC

Pretorian

8/10/18 7:49am

This is blatantly false. The HC and church standards explicitly forbid

Jezza

8/10/18 11:55am

What is “non sexual gay activity”?

CoachSpeak

8/11/18 10:48am

Going on a date. Holding hands. Etc.

Jay Rick

8/11/18 10:57am

All are preludes to sex....

CoachSpeak

8/11/18 11:09am

You also wouldn't be able to get an ecclesiastical endorsement if you expressed

Jay Rick

8/10/18 5:55pm

This scenario is stupid... in this case it is extremely likely this person only

Pretorian

8/10/18 9:09pm

Um... disagreeing with the church on a topic doesn’t make a person evil

mikecito

8/10/18 9:17pm

Never did I say that disagreeing with the church makes you evil

Pretorian

8/10/18 9:58pm

Uh…

Jay Rick

8/10/18 10:17pm

ok, ok... it seems clear you and I are hashing out the extremes when there is a

Pretorian

8/12/18 8:05pm

Thumbs up. Totally.

Jay Rick

8/12/18 9:00pm

BYU was the school that didn't allow blacks

AxelDC

8/10/18 7:15am

Wait-timeout here. There was never a “ban on blacks at BYU”

Greg Kite's 'stache

8/10/18 7:40am

I think that is what Axel was referring to but good to clarify.

mikecito

8/10/18 7:44am

Have you ever said anything positive about BYU or the Church?

Carnac

8/10/18 8:02am

That was meant for Axels comment, right?

pegushin

8/10/18 8:07am

Yes. Sorry.

Carnac

8/10/18 8:10am

This is correct. There was never a black ban at BYU. That's an absurd claim.

macdizzle

8/10/18 12:58pm

Because no other schools ever discriminated blacks...

Pretorian

8/10/18 7:46am

mfw BYU 'discriminated' against blacks

Dissenter

8/10/18 8:03am

Excellent troll...but I bet you are intolerant of others.

Beetdiggercoug

8/10/18 9:08am

Not true at all

Chet Donnelly

8/10/18 9:22am

When did BYU not allow blacks?

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 9:48am

Unless you're a Republican, Mormon, and straight. Then they care a lot.

IronPotato

8/10/18 8:55am

BYU has the luxury of requiring limitations on their students because it is a

here's to hoping

8/10/18 10:01am

been said a few times above, but Stanford is a private school.

Jay Rick

8/10/18 5:57pm

The one that doesn’t believe in free speech

kcca

8/10/18 7:50am

It looks like Cal allows the LDS student association

coolcats

8/10/18 7:57am

When I was at BYU there was group for LGB. The president of the group spoke in

BYUtka

8/10/18 8:04am

I have heard one exists

coolcats

8/10/18 8:09am

Well here is some info about it

mikecito

8/10/18 8:18am

I imagine that BYU as a private university is wary of allowing such an

here's to hoping

8/10/18 10:19am

You are wrong about the LGBT at BYU. FWIW.

jkccoug

8/10/18 4:39pm

Having considerable spent time on all 3 campuses

Bucko

8/10/18 8:25am

Yep.

PJMort

8/10/18 9:53am

Of course it includes both religion and LGBT. Along with race, social mores,

chilango

8/10/18 10:50am

My question was more of is LGBT "a belief"?

Bucko

8/10/18 5:18pm

Some believe that same-sex marriage is OK. And some believe that sexual

chilango

8/10/18 10:05pm

Inside the classroom or inside the dorms?

Shore10

8/10/18 9:16pm

This is idiotic

SliqRic

8/10/18 8:26am

It’s California and it’s not close

2FarGone

8/10/18 8:32am

Why isn't Utah on this list? They are the most anti-Mormon university by far

BlooCoog

8/10/18 9:08am

I've been to BYU games against both schools in Provo and at their stadiums as well.

SpiffCoug

8/10/18 9:08am

This is a no win poll.

Refugee

8/10/18 9:20am

Depends on who you ask

Byu_1988

8/10/18 9:25am

Trying to understand what CBers consider to be tolerant or intolerant, given the

chilango

8/10/18 10:52am

It depends on the audience. If we're talking about students, it is BYU.

macdizzle

8/10/18 9:26am

Woah! You think BYU students are more opposed to people's beliefs?!

2FarGone

8/10/18 10:11am

I could be wrong, but I think macdizzle meant intolerance of the university in

here's to hoping

8/10/18 10:25am

Yes this is what I meant

macdizzle

8/10/18 11:03am

Most BYU students are pretty tolerant because they've always been around others

j20

8/10/18 9:53am

No clue. SPORTS: I think Cal was most opposed to BYU joining the PAC the past.

Benfica1

8/10/18 9:56am

Ask yourself this question:

CrimsonCardinal

8/10/18 10:24am

Perfect example

Pretorian

8/10/18 10:46am

I'm guessing the school at which this event was held was not BYU. Has such an

chilango

8/10/18 10:55am

Not BYU. I'd be amazed if there were any problems at BYU for this.

CrimsonCardinal

8/10/18 12:41pm

Unless things have changed significantly since I was there, I would be amazed if

chilango

8/10/18 10:08pm

Meh. Conservative groups set up tables near Sather Gate at Cal every

Josef K

8/10/18 11:25am

They put up with "conservative" in the abstract just fine.

CrimsonCardinal

8/10/18 12:43pm

LOL. Try setting up hollocost is fake table in Brooklyn and see how it goes

Josef K

8/10/18 12:57pm

Well. One of those opinions is at least close to accurate.

boogers

8/10/18 1:03pm

You think "abortion is murder" is an intolerant statement? And your comparison

here's to hoping

8/10/18 2:10pm

No, it’s not objectively true. The church does consider it murder, the law

Josef K

8/10/18 2:33pm

Abortion is murder... PERIOD

bluecougar1985

8/11/18 8:06am

If it’s murder, why is it okay if I’m raped?

Jay Rick

8/11/18 11:02am

That actually isn’t what it says...

CoachSpeak

8/11/18 11:13am

That actually almost exactly what the handbook says.

Jay Rick

8/11/18 3:33pm

No. It’s not.

Josef K

8/12/18 1:00am

Nope...

CoachSpeak

8/10/18 3:12pm

Regarding Cal, it depends whether you are referring to the administration, the

Josef K

8/10/18 11:29am

I think this is probably a pretty accurate view.

chilango

8/10/18 12:33pm

Very well put. And really gets at the point. People always point out that there

Jay Rick

8/10/18 10:29pm

LOL. The result of this poll is pathetic 😂

Jezza

8/10/18 11:49am

Umm al-Qura University probably wins hands down

CougarThug

8/10/18 12:04pm

Define Intolerance....Does publicly mocking another group represent intolerance?

OBXCougar

8/10/18 2:19pm

I think it can include all of those things. However, not every type of

chilango

8/10/18 10:21pm

That’s being a bit naive isn’t it?

StalwartBraveTrue

8/10/18 11:56pm

So in your opinion, which elementary school is more intolerant: the one that

chilango

8/11/18 5:16am

You are missing the point.

StalwartBraveTrue

8/11/18 7:47am

I'm not missing that point. I just disagree with you. Both are repulsive, for

chilango

8/11/18 8:00am

I guess I’m missing your point...which is?

StalwartBraveTrue

8/11/18 9:52am

I would phrase it differently: some types of intolerance are more destructive

chilango

8/11/18 10:47am

Certainly. But is the point of the poll to establish

StalwartBraveTrue

8/11/18 11:34am

Actually, it was to understand how CBers perceive intolerance on a relative

chilango

8/11/18 4:53pm

The ones that have violent riots when a speaker comes to campus and whose bands

Abe Froman

8/10/18 2:22pm

Two cents

Srg

8/10/18 3:38pm

Most Berkeley students are very nice

CougarWildcat

8/10/18 4:13pm

Are you talking about views of those in other campuses or

Stalwart Man

8/10/18 6:11pm

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