Agree with this, high school sports in Utah are so political

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Mar 29, 2023
9:22:55am

CameronG 3rd String

Agree with this, high school sports in Utah are so political

While there are some very good coaches here, in too many cases the coach is in over his/her head and let parents have way too much influence on who is on the team/who plays. I played basketball for my high school and got less playing time than guys whose older brothers who had played for the coach or had parents who were teachers at the school despite being better. Those guys had no business even being on the team and they were playing regularly.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Mar 29, 2023 at 9:22:55am

Message modified by CameronG on Mar 29, 2023 at 9:28:16am

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CameronG

Bio page: CameronG
Joined: Jul 21, 2022
Last login: Apr 26, 2024
Total posts: 3,498 (3 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Is daddy ball a common thing in high school baseball

Gigo

3/29/23 7:01am

I don’t live in utah but I know various examples of this being the case. Brighton and Davis are examples.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 7:08am

There wasn’t a better point guard on Brighton

3/29/23 7:17am

No idea, that was the rumor.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 8:50am

So the head coach let's the assistant coach call plays for his sons, to the

3/29/23 9:12am

Haha.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 9:21am

RE: Haha.

3/29/23 9:27am

You know more than I do about Brighton, no doubt. My point is Dad's should not coach for this exact reason...

Cougstreak

3/29/23 10:17am

That’s my thinking about it. Unless the dad’s kid is clearly better than all

Gigo

3/29/23 10:32am

Assistants do that stuff all the time. The head coaches want the kid(s) and

palangi

3/29/23 9:27am

Our local HS team played against Brighton the last two years. This parent/AC

Captain Stubing

3/29/23 10:42am

Good points.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 11:19am

I don't disagree that any parent who coaches is going to be subject to criticism

3/29/23 2:24pm

Again, not specific to Brighton IMO.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 4:13pm

I don’t know the head coach at Davis. I’m just trying to understand what to

Gigo

3/29/23 7:19am

It's all about the HC. High school sports are pretty much volunteer jobs

Corn Pop

3/29/23 7:16am

In Texas this would violate UIL rules and could put the team under risk of sanct

Saxa

3/29/23 7:18am

Wow, that would be awesome. Here (CO), it's nearly impossible to find coaches.

JJCoug

3/29/23 7:40am

Same here in Bama. In fact most practices are closed to parents.

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 7:42am

I would bet that most Head Coach positions are part time employees in Utah.

3/29/23 7:55am

The coaches / teachers in Texas are paid pretty well and for most of them, the

Saxa

3/29/23 8:27am

They teach one class and are considered full time?

3/29/23 8:42am

yeah.. they are on campus and available in other roles (assisting in weight lift

Saxa

3/29/23 8:50am

That is sad. If they are qualified to teach and are fully utilized I am fine

3/29/23 9:03am

I couldn’t disagree more. Having quality and influential coaches is so valuable

palangi

3/29/23 9:15am

Agree with this, high school sports in Utah are so political

CameronG

3/29/23 9:22am

How many actually get that experience?

3/29/23 9:23am

A lot. The coaches also spend way more time with them than teachers or parents

palangi

3/29/23 9:36am

It’s also a reason why many parents want to coach, they get to be around their

palangi

3/29/23 9:38am

At most 400 kids participated in sports out of 2000 at my high school

3/29/23 9:38am

a teacher has about 100 students at a time that they spend roughly 4 hours/week

palangi

3/29/23 9:43am

A teacher in my district would have 230 to 250 students but I still don’t see

3/29/23 10:32am

I don’t think you quite understand the purpose of schools or how sports

palangi

3/29/23 11:05am

I think you like having the public pay for your hobby and the hobbies of your

3/29/23 11:09am

Nah. Look around you. Facilities are everywhere at schools and have been for

palangi

3/29/23 11:21am

I don't understand what you are trying to say in that last sentence

3/29/23 11:32am

HS sports don’t come close to paying for themselves yet every school has them

palangi

3/29/23 11:44am

I am friends with a former HS principal, he said the importance of HS sports

CameronG

3/29/23 11:53am

Does HS pride improve learning? Does it actually improve student well being?

3/29/23 12:03pm

HS pride can give you a sense of belonging and friends that share that with you

CameronG

3/29/23 12:22pm

Does it actually do that though? I am talking about some sort of actual data

3/29/23 12:36pm

I know plenty of kids who didn't play HS sports but went to games and had fun

CameronG

3/29/23 12:49pm

When you have actual evidence I will happy to consider it.

3/29/23 12:56pm

Do you really not believe sports help with the well being of students? It does not help with mental health?

Cougstreak

3/29/23 2:25pm

Feel free to show me the evidence that it helps non-participants at high schools

3/29/23 2:47pm

Feel free to show me it doesn't. 😉 I would love your views on what you recommend and your data to back this up?

Cougstreak

3/29/23 3:02pm

So the burden is on me to demonstrate a negative? Seems like the burden should

3/29/23 3:34pm

No one that seriously competes is going to want to play intramurals.

FT487

3/29/23 4:01pm

Lots of people got way more into other peoples games at BYU than I would

3/29/23 4:12pm

And many of those same people go to school sponsored games along with the many

FT487

3/29/23 5:00pm

We are not going to agree. Feel free to move on. I am not going to send data, I have better things to do.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 4:02pm

Been going to games since 1994. I don’t see the relevance

3/29/23 4:09pm

You missed the point.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 7:07pm

It also makes a LOT of money

3/29/23 7:15pm

And why are those college players good? Because they are some of the best and

FT487

3/29/23 10:34pm

Somehow European sports manages to still produce elite athletes. They are

3/30/23 1:40am

FYI, the European model has less kids participating. This all stems from

FT487

3/30/23 8:24am

So BYU students get nothing from BYU football? No change to their college experience?

Cougstreak

3/30/23 5:23am

Do you think it impacts learning at BYU? If anything the focus and attention I

3/30/23 5:31am

Are you for real?

Cougstreak

3/30/23 8:29am

You are so disingenuous. Did I ever say college students don't need to

3/30/23 8:50am

Am I. Sports teach many lessons for life, part of the school experience.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 9:02am

Do you think the benefits of sport would go away if it wasn't the best of the

3/30/23 10:04am

Generally…

Cougstreak

3/30/23 10:18am

I never said anything about being fair. How do participants benefit from sports?

3/30/23 10:30am

Benefits a lot more than any other activity. No doubt.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 10:46am

No question a strong athletic program helps the entire school.

FT487

3/29/23 3:18pm

I don’t think I said it wouldn’t benefit the participants. I think it would

3/29/23 3:30pm

Apparently, you didn't read what I said. I not only talked about

FT487

3/29/23 3:57pm

The vast majority of what you wrote addressed the benefits to the athlete

3/29/23 4:01pm

Yup and I could go on with stories of a downs kid on my team

FT487

3/29/23 4:42pm

Im glad your program benefits those players and you try and expand those benefit

3/29/23 5:13pm

Once again you don't get it. The entire school benefited from it.

FT487

3/29/23 7:03pm

How would you know that it made a measurable impact on the student body? What

3/29/23 7:19pm

IDK, people in and out of the school telling me it did, my own eyes, numerous

FT487

3/29/23 9:45pm

None of that seems quantifiable

3/30/23 1:41am

then it doesn't matter what I say you will keep believing in fantasy land

FT487

3/30/23 8:34am

Where did I say anyone deserves a trophy? We are helping kids become successful

3/30/23 10:29am

I've come to the conclusion you can't be for real. The laughing has

FT487

3/30/23 11:25am

You got angry because someone had a different opinion about the way school

3/30/23 11:58am

I didn't know you were sitting next to me because you would have seen this

FT487

3/30/23 12:40pm

He is not going to back down on his point or have any give. Best to move on.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 4:03pm

You did ask if HS sports improve their well-being and we've given you ample

CameronG

3/29/23 5:04pm

I don't believe I did for the participants. If it seemed that I did that was not

3/29/23 5:10pm

Give an example? No, intramural sports do not impact the student body the same way

Cougstreak

3/29/23 7:09pm

I think it could. My local elementary school has competitions throughout

3/29/23 7:22pm

You are seriously equating elementary schools to high schools?

FT487

3/29/23 10:28pm

So we are back to make everyone pay for my hobby

3/30/23 1:37am

So cancel theater if all kids don’t get a chance to be the lead?

Cougstreak

3/30/23 5:27am

Is that a fair interpretation of what I said? They add parts to the plays all

3/30/23 5:39am

I just did a survey in a couple of my classes (history, Spanish), sample size 43

FT487

3/30/23 9:35am

Now do a survey to see if they should all get A's

3/30/23 10:12am

About 6 kids are absent. I think they might be at band concert or with drama at

FT487

3/30/23 11:19am

I take it you were cut and couldn't hack it.

FT487

3/30/23 8:39am

Ha, I played football and never got cut but I was definitely a hack

3/30/23 10:23am

Wasn't anything personal. It just is what it is couldn't hack it.

FT487

3/30/23 11:46am

Childish. Get back to work coach

3/30/23 11:53am

RE: Childish. Get back to work coach

FT487

3/30/23 12:43pm

Not everyone wants to play, in fact most don't

CameronG

3/30/23 9:37am

In my experience those that don't like to play sports typically don't like to

3/30/23 10:31am

and they can go play rec or church. Start your own

FT487

3/30/23 11:48am

My local middle school offers after school pickle ball and before school archery

3/30/23 11:56am

who's getting mad again? haha. BTW, you don't have a clue how I treat and

FT487

3/30/23 12:41pm

So let them play pickleball. No one is against that.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 1:00pm

How many more would want to participate in basketball? It is the best sport

3/30/23 1:22pm

Let them play rec basketball and have an A team…ie the HS team. Is that not “equal” or “fair”.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 1:40pm

You keep bringing up equal and fair. I never said this was about that

3/30/23 1:47pm

Do the best athletes need a band and cheerleaders and to have exclusive rights

3/30/23 1:57pm

I can see it now. Cheerleaders and the band show up and play the school

FT487

3/30/23 2:19pm

They had a few hundred show up to the final competition. No band.

3/30/23 2:32pm

Dang strait!

FT487

3/30/23 2:36pm

Strait?

3/30/23 3:29pm

RE: Strait?

FT487

3/30/23 3:41pm

Ha, can't tell if he is serious. Archery being a sport to benefit the whole crowd. It would be a be a packed house.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 6:29pm

Really depends on the size of the school and the level of interest

3/30/23 6:39pm

RE: Ha, can't tell if he is serious. Archery being a sport to benefit the whole

FT487

3/30/23 8:02pm

You brought up college sports for some reason so I addressed that

3/29/23 12:07pm

Had a parent who coached H.S. volleyball and was retiring tell me

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 9:19am

That doesn’t bother me, quality hs coaches are more valuable than d2 imo. Not

palangi

3/29/23 9:22am

My bet is he probably made more than most D1 schools also.

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 9:24am

They would've had a club or included teaching salary in that. I highly doubt

FT487

3/29/23 11:00am

Lol...there are HS football coaches making $120k here.

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 11:39am

Just there stipen?

FT487

3/29/23 1:22pm

Utah HS volleyball coaches were making $8k like five years ago and assistants were making $5k a year

3/30/23 9:12am

I know it varies in Idaho from district to district. Head basketball coach in

FT487

3/30/23 9:32am

Yep. I coached JV volleyball for two seasons in southern Idaho and made $2,800 per season

3/30/23 11:31am

Coaches can be paid more through donors, ie parents, to keep key coaches and staff.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 8:21am

hmm.. not sure if that has changed recently.. but I formed and was President of

Saxa

3/29/23 8:47am

Not an expert at all. I know in the DFW area some coaches got paid through some donor pools to retain them.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 8:51am

They can donate to the athletic program and that money can be used for coaches

3/29/23 8:56am

What the freak? A high school coach HAS to be a full time employee of the...

COACHdrn

3/29/23 8:35am

Yep, you read it correctly.. though many coaches only teach the athletic class

Saxa

3/29/23 8:48am

That doesn’t seem like a full time employee. I teach an athletic class but…

COACHdrn

3/29/23 8:51am

Football Head coaches in Texas are full time coaches employed by the school

3/29/23 8:58am

Utah high school sports is all about daddy ball.

ThreatLevelMidnight

3/29/23 7:48am

Daddy ball starts well before high school

cougarbart

3/29/23 8:01am

Yeah. Couple things. First, it’s hard for 1-2 guys to run even a decent little

RevolutionDeathsquad

3/29/23 8:30am

This 100%

COUGND

3/29/23 9:01am

But you hope it would end come high school.

ThreatLevelMidnight

3/29/23 9:12am

Obviously it doesn’t work for someone who sucks

cougarbart

3/29/23 12:07pm

I’d be surprised if it wasn’t common. Basketball is the worst imo, football next

palangi

3/29/23 8:03am

Our sophomore football team has 70 players and 2 coaches. Coach needs to

Plato

3/29/23 8:52am

if dads are involved the kids that are average have a chance to be better...

CougarBuddy

3/29/23 8:09am

It happened at Jordan 25 years ago. Sometimes it is a good thing but backfired….

jetycns

3/29/23 8:12am

We have a football coach who has a rule about dad’s helping out

Medute

3/29/23 8:30am

It’s that way in most sports at many many high schools in Utah.

pink22

3/29/23 8:43am

Parent helpers are only allowed if they are UHSAA certified coaches

cougarstrong

3/29/23 9:02am

This certification is a HUGE deterrent. It takes a ton of time and effort.

doctorcoug

3/29/23 10:36pm

I’m pretty sure none of these dads did the certification.

Gigo

3/30/23 6:39am

UHSAA fines the AD if they aren't complete. Assistant coaches must be registered with UHSAA and if not, they aren't

doctorcoug

3/30/23 10:24am

I don't have a problem with dads helping w/ HS baseball so long as . . .

3/29/23 9:24am

RE: I don't have a problem with dads helping w/ HS baseball so long as . . .

jetycns

3/29/23 9:31am

But then who scores the games on GameChanger?

Gigo

3/29/23 9:53am

As I stated in my post, I always disregard errors in scoring youth baseball

3/29/23 2:23pm

I agree on this. Let the numbers drive the playing time. However, as

FT487

3/29/23 10:19am

No walks? BB is the BEST way to generate runs. Trying to not get walked is like trying to not win. I want my players to

doctorcoug

3/29/23 10:34pm

Are their kids better and are those dad's buddies with the coach?

FT487

3/29/23 10:11am

yes its a big thing at Lehi HS and Skyridge HS

BYU Grounds

3/29/23 11:21am

For baseball at Lehi and Skyridge?

3/29/23 2:27pm

Yes baseball

BYU Grounds

3/30/23 2:53pm

<< Deleted >>

FT487

3/29/23 3:25pm

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