I never said anything about being fair. How do participants benefit from sports?

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Mar 30, 2023
10:30:32am

Charles Darwin Truly Addicted User

I never said anything about being fair. How do participants benefit from sports?

Why don't you want those benefits for all students?

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Charles Darwin

Bio page: Charles Darwin
Joined: Mar 21, 2020
Last login: Apr 28, 2024
Total posts: 14,229 (127 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Is daddy ball a common thing in high school baseball

Gigo

3/29/23 7:01am

I don’t live in utah but I know various examples of this being the case. Brighton and Davis are examples.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 7:08am

There wasn’t a better point guard on Brighton

3/29/23 7:17am

No idea, that was the rumor.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 8:50am

So the head coach let's the assistant coach call plays for his sons, to the

3/29/23 9:12am

Haha.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 9:21am

RE: Haha.

3/29/23 9:27am

You know more than I do about Brighton, no doubt. My point is Dad's should not coach for this exact reason...

Cougstreak

3/29/23 10:17am

That’s my thinking about it. Unless the dad’s kid is clearly better than all

Gigo

3/29/23 10:32am

Assistants do that stuff all the time. The head coaches want the kid(s) and

palangi

3/29/23 9:27am

Our local HS team played against Brighton the last two years. This parent/AC

Captain Stubing

3/29/23 10:42am

Good points.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 11:19am

I don't disagree that any parent who coaches is going to be subject to criticism

3/29/23 2:24pm

Again, not specific to Brighton IMO.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 4:13pm

I don’t know the head coach at Davis. I’m just trying to understand what to

Gigo

3/29/23 7:19am

It's all about the HC. High school sports are pretty much volunteer jobs

Corn Pop

3/29/23 7:16am

In Texas this would violate UIL rules and could put the team under risk of sanct

Saxa

3/29/23 7:18am

Wow, that would be awesome. Here (CO), it's nearly impossible to find coaches.

JJCoug

3/29/23 7:40am

Same here in Bama. In fact most practices are closed to parents.

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 7:42am

I would bet that most Head Coach positions are part time employees in Utah.

3/29/23 7:55am

The coaches / teachers in Texas are paid pretty well and for most of them, the

Saxa

3/29/23 8:27am

They teach one class and are considered full time?

3/29/23 8:42am

yeah.. they are on campus and available in other roles (assisting in weight lift

Saxa

3/29/23 8:50am

That is sad. If they are qualified to teach and are fully utilized I am fine

3/29/23 9:03am

I couldn’t disagree more. Having quality and influential coaches is so valuable

palangi

3/29/23 9:15am

Agree with this, high school sports in Utah are so political

CameronG

3/29/23 9:22am

How many actually get that experience?

3/29/23 9:23am

A lot. The coaches also spend way more time with them than teachers or parents

palangi

3/29/23 9:36am

It’s also a reason why many parents want to coach, they get to be around their

palangi

3/29/23 9:38am

At most 400 kids participated in sports out of 2000 at my high school

3/29/23 9:38am

a teacher has about 100 students at a time that they spend roughly 4 hours/week

palangi

3/29/23 9:43am

A teacher in my district would have 230 to 250 students but I still don’t see

3/29/23 10:32am

I don’t think you quite understand the purpose of schools or how sports

palangi

3/29/23 11:05am

I think you like having the public pay for your hobby and the hobbies of your

3/29/23 11:09am

Nah. Look around you. Facilities are everywhere at schools and have been for

palangi

3/29/23 11:21am

I don't understand what you are trying to say in that last sentence

3/29/23 11:32am

HS sports don’t come close to paying for themselves yet every school has them

palangi

3/29/23 11:44am

I am friends with a former HS principal, he said the importance of HS sports

CameronG

3/29/23 11:53am

Does HS pride improve learning? Does it actually improve student well being?

3/29/23 12:03pm

HS pride can give you a sense of belonging and friends that share that with you

CameronG

3/29/23 12:22pm

Does it actually do that though? I am talking about some sort of actual data

3/29/23 12:36pm

I know plenty of kids who didn't play HS sports but went to games and had fun

CameronG

3/29/23 12:49pm

When you have actual evidence I will happy to consider it.

3/29/23 12:56pm

Do you really not believe sports help with the well being of students? It does not help with mental health?

Cougstreak

3/29/23 2:25pm

Feel free to show me the evidence that it helps non-participants at high schools

3/29/23 2:47pm

Feel free to show me it doesn't. 😉 I would love your views on what you recommend and your data to back this up?

Cougstreak

3/29/23 3:02pm

So the burden is on me to demonstrate a negative? Seems like the burden should

3/29/23 3:34pm

No one that seriously competes is going to want to play intramurals.

FT487

3/29/23 4:01pm

Lots of people got way more into other peoples games at BYU than I would

3/29/23 4:12pm

And many of those same people go to school sponsored games along with the many

FT487

3/29/23 5:00pm

We are not going to agree. Feel free to move on. I am not going to send data, I have better things to do.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 4:02pm

Been going to games since 1994. I don’t see the relevance

3/29/23 4:09pm

You missed the point.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 7:07pm

It also makes a LOT of money

3/29/23 7:15pm

And why are those college players good? Because they are some of the best and

FT487

3/29/23 10:34pm

Somehow European sports manages to still produce elite athletes. They are

3/30/23 1:40am

FYI, the European model has less kids participating. This all stems from

FT487

3/30/23 8:24am

So BYU students get nothing from BYU football? No change to their college experience?

Cougstreak

3/30/23 5:23am

Do you think it impacts learning at BYU? If anything the focus and attention I

3/30/23 5:31am

Are you for real?

Cougstreak

3/30/23 8:29am

You are so disingenuous. Did I ever say college students don't need to

3/30/23 8:50am

Am I. Sports teach many lessons for life, part of the school experience.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 9:02am

Do you think the benefits of sport would go away if it wasn't the best of the

3/30/23 10:04am

Generally…

Cougstreak

3/30/23 10:18am

I never said anything about being fair. How do participants benefit from sports?

3/30/23 10:30am

Benefits a lot more than any other activity. No doubt.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 10:46am

No question a strong athletic program helps the entire school.

FT487

3/29/23 3:18pm

I don’t think I said it wouldn’t benefit the participants. I think it would

3/29/23 3:30pm

Apparently, you didn't read what I said. I not only talked about

FT487

3/29/23 3:57pm

The vast majority of what you wrote addressed the benefits to the athlete

3/29/23 4:01pm

Yup and I could go on with stories of a downs kid on my team

FT487

3/29/23 4:42pm

Im glad your program benefits those players and you try and expand those benefit

3/29/23 5:13pm

Once again you don't get it. The entire school benefited from it.

FT487

3/29/23 7:03pm

How would you know that it made a measurable impact on the student body? What

3/29/23 7:19pm

IDK, people in and out of the school telling me it did, my own eyes, numerous

FT487

3/29/23 9:45pm

None of that seems quantifiable

3/30/23 1:41am

then it doesn't matter what I say you will keep believing in fantasy land

FT487

3/30/23 8:34am

Where did I say anyone deserves a trophy? We are helping kids become successful

3/30/23 10:29am

I've come to the conclusion you can't be for real. The laughing has

FT487

3/30/23 11:25am

You got angry because someone had a different opinion about the way school

3/30/23 11:58am

I didn't know you were sitting next to me because you would have seen this

FT487

3/30/23 12:40pm

He is not going to back down on his point or have any give. Best to move on.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 4:03pm

You did ask if HS sports improve their well-being and we've given you ample

CameronG

3/29/23 5:04pm

I don't believe I did for the participants. If it seemed that I did that was not

3/29/23 5:10pm

Give an example? No, intramural sports do not impact the student body the same way

Cougstreak

3/29/23 7:09pm

I think it could. My local elementary school has competitions throughout

3/29/23 7:22pm

You are seriously equating elementary schools to high schools?

FT487

3/29/23 10:28pm

So we are back to make everyone pay for my hobby

3/30/23 1:37am

So cancel theater if all kids don’t get a chance to be the lead?

Cougstreak

3/30/23 5:27am

Is that a fair interpretation of what I said? They add parts to the plays all

3/30/23 5:39am

I just did a survey in a couple of my classes (history, Spanish), sample size 43

FT487

3/30/23 9:35am

Now do a survey to see if they should all get A's

3/30/23 10:12am

About 6 kids are absent. I think they might be at band concert or with drama at

FT487

3/30/23 11:19am

I take it you were cut and couldn't hack it.

FT487

3/30/23 8:39am

Ha, I played football and never got cut but I was definitely a hack

3/30/23 10:23am

Wasn't anything personal. It just is what it is couldn't hack it.

FT487

3/30/23 11:46am

Childish. Get back to work coach

3/30/23 11:53am

RE: Childish. Get back to work coach

FT487

3/30/23 12:43pm

Not everyone wants to play, in fact most don't

CameronG

3/30/23 9:37am

In my experience those that don't like to play sports typically don't like to

3/30/23 10:31am

and they can go play rec or church. Start your own

FT487

3/30/23 11:48am

My local middle school offers after school pickle ball and before school archery

3/30/23 11:56am

who's getting mad again? haha. BTW, you don't have a clue how I treat and

FT487

3/30/23 12:41pm

So let them play pickleball. No one is against that.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 1:00pm

How many more would want to participate in basketball? It is the best sport

3/30/23 1:22pm

Let them play rec basketball and have an A team…ie the HS team. Is that not “equal” or “fair”.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 1:40pm

You keep bringing up equal and fair. I never said this was about that

3/30/23 1:47pm

Do the best athletes need a band and cheerleaders and to have exclusive rights

3/30/23 1:57pm

I can see it now. Cheerleaders and the band show up and play the school

FT487

3/30/23 2:19pm

They had a few hundred show up to the final competition. No band.

3/30/23 2:32pm

Dang strait!

FT487

3/30/23 2:36pm

Strait?

3/30/23 3:29pm

RE: Strait?

FT487

3/30/23 3:41pm

Ha, can't tell if he is serious. Archery being a sport to benefit the whole crowd. It would be a be a packed house.

Cougstreak

3/30/23 6:29pm

Really depends on the size of the school and the level of interest

3/30/23 6:39pm

RE: Ha, can't tell if he is serious. Archery being a sport to benefit the whole

FT487

3/30/23 8:02pm

You brought up college sports for some reason so I addressed that

3/29/23 12:07pm

Had a parent who coached H.S. volleyball and was retiring tell me

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 9:19am

That doesn’t bother me, quality hs coaches are more valuable than d2 imo. Not

palangi

3/29/23 9:22am

My bet is he probably made more than most D1 schools also.

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 9:24am

They would've had a club or included teaching salary in that. I highly doubt

FT487

3/29/23 11:00am

Lol...there are HS football coaches making $120k here.

ordinary tri guy

3/29/23 11:39am

Just there stipen?

FT487

3/29/23 1:22pm

Utah HS volleyball coaches were making $8k like five years ago and assistants were making $5k a year

3/30/23 9:12am

I know it varies in Idaho from district to district. Head basketball coach in

FT487

3/30/23 9:32am

Yep. I coached JV volleyball for two seasons in southern Idaho and made $2,800 per season

3/30/23 11:31am

Coaches can be paid more through donors, ie parents, to keep key coaches and staff.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 8:21am

hmm.. not sure if that has changed recently.. but I formed and was President of

Saxa

3/29/23 8:47am

Not an expert at all. I know in the DFW area some coaches got paid through some donor pools to retain them.

Cougstreak

3/29/23 8:51am

They can donate to the athletic program and that money can be used for coaches

3/29/23 8:56am

What the freak? A high school coach HAS to be a full time employee of the...

COACHdrn

3/29/23 8:35am

Yep, you read it correctly.. though many coaches only teach the athletic class

Saxa

3/29/23 8:48am

That doesn’t seem like a full time employee. I teach an athletic class but…

COACHdrn

3/29/23 8:51am

Football Head coaches in Texas are full time coaches employed by the school

3/29/23 8:58am

Utah high school sports is all about daddy ball.

ThreatLevelMidnight

3/29/23 7:48am

Daddy ball starts well before high school

cougarbart

3/29/23 8:01am

Yeah. Couple things. First, it’s hard for 1-2 guys to run even a decent little

RevolutionDeathsquad

3/29/23 8:30am

This 100%

COUGND

3/29/23 9:01am

But you hope it would end come high school.

ThreatLevelMidnight

3/29/23 9:12am

Obviously it doesn’t work for someone who sucks

cougarbart

3/29/23 12:07pm

I’d be surprised if it wasn’t common. Basketball is the worst imo, football next

palangi

3/29/23 8:03am

Our sophomore football team has 70 players and 2 coaches. Coach needs to

Plato

3/29/23 8:52am

if dads are involved the kids that are average have a chance to be better...

CougarBuddy

3/29/23 8:09am

It happened at Jordan 25 years ago. Sometimes it is a good thing but backfired….

jetycns

3/29/23 8:12am

We have a football coach who has a rule about dad’s helping out

Medute

3/29/23 8:30am

It’s that way in most sports at many many high schools in Utah.

pink22

3/29/23 8:43am

Parent helpers are only allowed if they are UHSAA certified coaches

cougarstrong

3/29/23 9:02am

This certification is a HUGE deterrent. It takes a ton of time and effort.

doctorcoug

3/29/23 10:36pm

I’m pretty sure none of these dads did the certification.

Gigo

3/30/23 6:39am

UHSAA fines the AD if they aren't complete. Assistant coaches must be registered with UHSAA and if not, they aren't

doctorcoug

3/30/23 10:24am

I don't have a problem with dads helping w/ HS baseball so long as . . .

3/29/23 9:24am

RE: I don't have a problem with dads helping w/ HS baseball so long as . . .

jetycns

3/29/23 9:31am

But then who scores the games on GameChanger?

Gigo

3/29/23 9:53am

As I stated in my post, I always disregard errors in scoring youth baseball

3/29/23 2:23pm

I agree on this. Let the numbers drive the playing time. However, as

FT487

3/29/23 10:19am

No walks? BB is the BEST way to generate runs. Trying to not get walked is like trying to not win. I want my players to

doctorcoug

3/29/23 10:34pm

Are their kids better and are those dad's buddies with the coach?

FT487

3/29/23 10:11am

yes its a big thing at Lehi HS and Skyridge HS

BYU Grounds

3/29/23 11:21am

For baseball at Lehi and Skyridge?

3/29/23 2:27pm

Yes baseball

BYU Grounds

3/30/23 2:53pm

<< Deleted >>

FT487

3/29/23 3:25pm

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