The night is darkest before the dawn

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Aug 5, 2019
6:46:26am

fatkid Redshirt Freshman

The night is darkest before the dawn

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fatkid

Bio page: fatkid
Joined: Dec 20, 2009
Last login: Mar 13, 2024
Total posts: 180 (1 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Absolute implosion of BYU sports the last few yrs under Holmoe is unforgivable

snowbird

8/4/19 3:34pm

Isn't the consesus he is a yes man so the BoT likes him?

TNT

8/4/19 3:35pm

It’s not a consensus. It’s reality.

8/4/19 5:47pm

This was the moment that I realized Holmoe could no longer be trusted with BYU sports.

Pimpin4Paradise

8/4/19 3:39pm

Holy crap. I laughed hard

Stucoug83

8/4/19 9:24pm

Here’s the problem with that...

CoachSpeak

8/4/19 3:39pm

This is good

Prickly Heat

8/4/19 4:23pm

I think this is the key.

HomeTownHero

8/4/19 5:48pm

Personally I don’t think holmoe has anything to do with

cougfanz

8/4/19 5:51pm

If he gets blamed for failures of football and basketball then he gets credit...

icecougar

8/5/19 2:00am

amen

8/5/19 12:11pm

Those sports don’t bring money or prestige to BYU so who cares if they are good

Dillinger

8/4/19 8:42pm

So why have them then? I’ll tell you why...

icecougar

8/5/19 2:39am

PAC 10 is called conference of champions because they gave themselves a nickname

ochobeeguy

8/5/19 9:37am

That is correct. Outside of the PAC most people don't call them that

pappabear246

8/6/19 5:31am

This is the longest period of time since early 70’s that we have gone without a

Oranje

8/4/19 6:23pm

The problem with your take is sports aren't even close to what they were pre-90s

palangi

8/4/19 10:26pm

Problem with your post is that most of the championships took place post 1990.

Oranje

8/4/19 11:05pm

<< Deleted >>

Oranje

8/4/19 10:52pm

Directors Cup standings are much lower than where they’ve been historically.

NorCal_Coug

8/4/19 6:34pm

But does that tell the whole story?

HomeTownHero

8/4/19 7:43pm

It’s overlooking what football and basketball have done

puntersarepeople

8/4/19 7:47pm

<< Deleted >>

fenderbender

8/4/19 8:18pm

In the 8 years before Holmoe, BYU won 7 national championships. Since then, ZERO

Oranje

8/4/19 10:04pm

Surprising that volleyball hasnt

puntersarepeople

8/4/19 10:14pm

Unfortunately Our current coaches aren’t what McGown and Peterson were.

Oranje

8/4/19 11:09pm

Ha ha. Are you Larry Scott?

BrobaFett

8/4/19 7:12pm

Is Larry Scott on cougar board?

Jazznut26

8/4/19 10:04pm

Even if that was true, those other sports dont pay the bills

Iki_Balam

8/4/19 10:14pm

That's more a product of the recruiting pipeline than it is the AD

Medute

8/5/19 10:02am

If they want to "give that up to play for a national power"...

CoachSpeak

8/5/19 10:22am

Better NFL talent production, coaching, and playing in PAC12

Medute

8/5/19 12:53pm

That's fine but you said they want to play for a "national power"...

CoachSpeak

8/6/19 12:39pm

Yeah, I think I was just referring to the top LDS athletes

Medute

8/6/19 1:13pm

Got it...

CoachSpeak

8/6/19 1:18pm

Yeah, I don't ever see Utah becoming one of the "sexy" schools

Medute

8/6/19 1:26pm

And that is the problem. Those "other" sports don't drive the revenue...

8/5/19 10:45am

I don't care how good USU becomes with Anderson. BYU should be winning that game

Preppy

8/4/19 3:40pm

He was a good coach at Cal though

Mr. Belding

8/4/19 3:41pm

This is cute

Prickly Heat

8/4/19 4:25pm

Before or after he destroyed their program?

8/4/19 9:08pm

So who should he have hired for football instead?

mudpupper

8/4/19 3:42pm

Lance Anderson

vagabonder

8/4/19 5:10pm

Really, it's hard to imagine a better set of experiences for a future BYU HC.

8/4/19 9:09pm

Ken Niumatalolo

reddead

8/5/19 8:43am

You guys were losing your minds about Ken N running the option.

8/5/19 10:19am

My HS team ran the option, so I was all about Ken N. But you're right, option

reddead

8/5/19 3:36pm

This isn’t entirely correct, there’s a little bit of truth in it...

CoachSpeak

8/6/19 8:30pm

I don’t like to be teased

8/6/19 10:00pm

I know, that’s super lame of me...

CoachSpeak

8/6/19 10:05pm

I remember reading a newspaper that interviewed him about the job and then watched him I think

8/6/19 10:14pm

You're definition of implosion is interesting. Need to look at your facts in

basman

8/4/19 3:51pm

weak

4mack

8/4/19 3:53pm

I thought of this too

TADOW

8/4/19 3:56pm

Starting to fall behind/letting Utah State catch up should be concerning to every BYU fan

Bonoman

8/4/19 4:02pm

I suppose LaVell should have had that attitude.

Y05

8/4/19 4:22pm

This is well crafted

Prickly Heat

8/4/19 4:28pm

I am not convinced there is the commitment needed to elevate each program back what you mentioned....

Bonoman

8/4/19 4:00pm

What is it you think they’re trying to do?

Pretorian

8/4/19 7:29pm

Sounds kind of like his coaching career...

Real Men Wear Blue

8/4/19 4:05pm

The Holmoe period has been a complete disaster. A massive failure.

Backcountry

8/4/19 4:07pm

3 straight losing seasons, sexual misconduct scandals

8/4/19 4:12pm

Preach.

8/4/19 4:22pm

A truth or two but just as many or more falsehoods

coug10278

8/4/19 4:19pm

Your confusing "athletic department" with "football team"

MaxxPower

8/4/19 6:22pm

Football matters most. However,

8/4/19 7:22pm

Football and mens basketball are the only relevant pieces

Backcountry

8/5/19 1:48pm

So is the argument that it's Holmoe's fault is he should have done what?

whiteninja

8/4/19 4:09pm

He failed to hire KWhitt. As much as I dislike him, and as “good” as Bronco was,

rainorsnow

8/4/19 4:16pm

It was solely on Kwhitt that he didn’t come. His players wanted him to stay so he stayed.

8/4/19 4:20pm

💰 💰 💰

rainorsnow

8/4/19 4:26pm

Wrong

TNT

8/4/19 4:28pm

What is right then?

8/4/19 4:30pm

Utah came up with more money on their counter offer

TNT

8/4/19 4:32pm

I thought players showed up to his house and asked him to stay.... that’s what several people on here have said.

8/4/19 4:36pm

They did. But that wasn't the deciding factor

TNT

8/4/19 4:38pm

Ok. You win TNT.

8/4/19 4:53pm

Wahoo! TNT = 567. CB = 45,412

TNT

8/4/19 5:04pm

You got sources saying it was him and not the BOT or attorneys?

BYUfan92

8/4/19 4:20pm

That's fair

TNT

8/4/19 4:22pm

It’s his job to sell it to them.

rainorsnow

8/4/19 4:26pm

No, his job is to implement what the BOT wants

BYUfan92

8/4/19 4:56pm

That's sad if the BOT can't let someone do their job.

rainorsnow

8/4/19 4:57pm

Yup

ZooBlue

8/4/19 5:38pm

Yeah, Whitt had nothing to do with the decision. We could’ve just made him come!

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:37am

I feel the last AD with a strong vision of what he wanted to accomplish was Rondo Fehlberg...he got shown the door

Bonoman

8/4/19 8:06pm

RE: I feel the last AD with a strong vision of what he wanted to accomplish was

Prickly Heat

8/4/19 10:05pm

Who was the dumpster fire that he hired? Please elaborate.

Oranje

8/5/19 11:21am

Whitt has nothing to do with the decision?

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:36am

Haha. The PAC-12 didn’t even exist back when Bronco was hired at BYU. These

rainorsnow

8/5/19 8:48am

Haha. It depends which time you’re talking about 🙄

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:58am

What other time would I be talking about??

rainorsnow

8/5/19 9:06am

The time Bronco left, duh. We talked to Whitt then too.

canofpicante

8/5/19 12:00pm

Yeah, Holmoe talked with him at the airport about Kalani. KW was never an option

rainorsnow

8/5/19 1:13pm

He was never an option the first time either.

canofpicante

8/6/19 11:31am

Wow. You’re the first person I’ve heard say KW was not an option

rainorsnow

8/6/19 11:35am

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and there is absolutely no way to know that

ManicBlue

8/5/19 9:18am

Well, he was BYU's #1 target for a reason. Not only that, he was the HC at

rainorsnow

8/5/19 10:34am

Agreed! BYU should have made KW a offer BEFORE Sanford took the job at UNLV...

8/5/19 10:23am

THe pitch to the Big12 in 2011 was bad

I'mBatman

8/4/19 5:10pm

So presumptuous. Please enlighten us as to our exact demands. I eagerly await...

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:39am

It was more than just no-Sunday play, which was too much. Here's Harmon's take:

rainorsnow

8/5/19 9:05am

This is nothing more than Harmon’s opinion and he says as much in the article.

canofpicante

8/5/19 12:13pm

We know BYU tried to negotiate on more than just no-Sunday play. That

rainorsnow

8/5/19 1:40pm

How do “we know”? We don’t.

canofpicante

8/6/19 12:12pm

I love Holmoe. I support his AD a ton. I want him to be the best AD in the

rainorsnow

8/6/19 7:53pm

You’ve shown us the symptoms. What’s the cause? What specifically has he done or not done that implies he’s the source?

Refugee

8/4/19 4:18pm

The facts are the facts. The failures have been while he was in charge.

8/4/19 6:51pm

A few:

chazen

8/4/19 9:12pm

Add to that he forces in Detmer, who also had no coaching experience in college

Iki_Balam

8/4/19 10:15pm

RE: A few:

Refugee

8/4/19 10:22pm

I doubt Sitake caused the collapse of BYU basketball. I could be wrong

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:41am

I really don’t care much about basketball

chazen

8/14/19 11:12am

I don't pin Independence on him. That is the driving force.

CougarinOZ

8/4/19 4:21pm

He took BYU independent, but you don’t pin that on him?

rainorsnow

8/4/19 4:38pm

Waayyy too simplistic. Unlike every other college

FanofBYU

8/4/19 6:41pm

Sinking ship or not the Big 12 was our only viable option then, as it is still

Jacksonian76

8/4/19 10:33pm

It was painful listening and arguing with many on CB who wanted

rainorsnow

8/4/19 10:40pm

Are you referring to 2011 or 2016?

Refugee

8/4/19 10:45pm

2011

rainorsnow

8/4/19 11:08pm

I agree that the Big12 would have been ideal

FanofBYU

8/4/19 11:44pm

Name the others then. Everyone claims Holmoe doesn't have to do anything as AD.

rainorsnow

8/5/19 12:12am

You can't be serious. Chris Hill had full authority. Also, the UofU President

FanofBYU

8/5/19 8:38am

So, you’re fine with BYU lying to the fan base in saying that they’re

rainorsnow

8/5/19 8:44am

Lying? Just because BYU BOT expect certain things doesn't mean they aren't

FanofBYU

8/5/19 9:53am

Lying. Misleading. Bending the truth. Whatever you want to call it. Their

rainorsnow

8/5/19 10:10am

What we’re saying is the BOT is not as

FanofBYU

8/5/19 11:04am

And I agree.

rainorsnow

8/5/19 11:13am

Doesn’t mean BYU isn’t trying to

FanofBYU

8/5/19 12:39pm

Holmoe has worked miracles given his circumstances. You're wrong if you think we can do better.

HarlemCoug

8/4/19 4:28pm

My only beef with him is nudging Detmer into the OC spot

BlackBart

8/4/19 4:32pm

BYU has a successful business program, but there’s no one that is

rainorsnow

8/4/19 4:41pm

Sincere question: how many schools have a business guy as AD?

Y05

8/4/19 4:49pm

Many do have a sports background, naturally. Small sample of CFB playoff ADs:

rainorsnow

8/4/19 5:08pm

Many of whom you touch on have deep, expansive relationships

BlackBart

8/4/19 8:59pm

Seems like a safe bet. Lewis will likely do anything the BOT says.

rainorsnow

8/4/19 9:10pm

This is the correct response. Everything else in my limited view

TempeCoug

8/4/19 6:36pm

It’s a tough position to define success and it’s a tough position to know whethe

cougfanz

8/4/19 4:41pm

This is true. Not unique to BYU

TNT

8/4/19 4:44pm

The positives of the athletic program heavily outweigh the negative.

troymac32

8/4/19 4:53pm

Most of the factors driving those things are not AD controlled

8/4/19 5:03pm

Blame it on the BOT

maxpowers

8/4/19 5:04pm

No, it’s not

puntersarepeople

8/4/19 5:06pm

Thankfully Tom has a plan.

Zach Morris

8/4/19 5:09pm

Good grief.

Mark

8/4/19 5:10pm

Just a WEE BIT of over-exaggeration there, or might we say an

BYU I Bleed Blue

8/4/19 10:15pm

Amen!!

8/4/19 11:26pm

I also keep hearing about how awful our swimming pool is

D.T. Survivor

8/4/19 5:14pm

“It’s not his fault” - Sincerely, Every blind follower of every bad leader.

8/4/19 5:17pm

Anywhere else and he'd have been fired long ago.

rainorsnow

8/4/19 5:19pm

Sad sad truth. And I’ve been told by people that he knows it too.

8/4/19 5:48pm

RE: Absolute implosion of BYU sports the last few yrs under Holmoe is

MormonThug

8/4/19 5:28pm

Bookmarked

8/4/19 5:47pm

Yeah, there’s a lot that’s wrong, but thinking an AD swap would fix it is silly

cajuncoug

8/4/19 5:49pm

Who would’ve handled things better?

Aircooled

8/4/19 5:53pm

How could anyone possibly know that? Why or how can anyone just assume that

8/4/19 7:00pm

You're right...we don't know that.

Aircooled

8/5/19 12:09pm

I’ve been critical of Holmoe and some of his hires, but I’m not sure BYU

ataylor

8/4/19 5:55pm

This modern hyperbole exaggerating mentality where everything is “literally” the

Pretorian

8/4/19 6:03pm

"implosion." You like using hyperbole

Adrielle

8/4/19 6:15pm

An athletic director should be graded on Leerfield cup standings with added weight to football and basketball

MaxxPower

8/4/19 6:16pm

I think we need to see how Pope does and how he handles the football situation

pappabear246

8/4/19 7:03pm

Implosion? What an over exaggeration!!! Someone needs a hug today!!

Chuckie2304

8/4/19 7:22pm

It's far from an "absolute implosion."

lightmann

8/4/19 7:23pm

There is a thin line between winning in college athletics. We are so spoiled

MajorZeus

8/4/19 7:27pm

Be sure to get these shots in before both sports start making significant

tony

8/4/19 8:12pm

So many of the points you rightfully make correlate with independence though...

fenderbender

8/4/19 8:21pm

Worst decision (for TH, BYU, and the BOT) at the time. I wish I could go back

rainorsnow

8/4/19 8:27pm

Funny how you think BYU will do something it nor any other school has done

Iki_Balam

8/4/19 10:18pm

The measure of success for an AD is much broader than on-field success for just men's football & basketball

cougXor

8/4/19 8:59pm

Your thinking is very shallow...Holmoe is not the root cause of any “implosion”

fatkid

8/4/19 9:40pm

BYU athletics died under Holmoe. The cause of death was Utah to the PAC 12

Blue2thebone

8/4/19 10:16pm

Nope. BYU athletics is alive and still going, just on the rebound!

BYU I Bleed Blue

8/4/19 10:20pm

The night is darkest before the dawn

fatkid

8/5/19 6:46am

RE: BYU athletics died under Holmoe. The cause of death was Utah to the PAC 12

puntersarepeople

8/4/19 10:26pm

Really? I have never been more excited about the future of BYU football.

Refugee

8/4/19 10:38pm

Really? Never been more excited? About what?

Blue2thebone

8/4/19 11:22pm

These things cycle. It’s not always gonna be this way. This is not all on Holmoe or any one thing.

Refugee

8/5/19 5:09am

Such as?

Backcountry

8/5/19 12:13pm

Read my post just above.

Refugee

8/5/19 12:31pm

You obviously didn't follow BYU football in the 80's and 90's.

BleedCougarBlue2

8/5/19 1:02pm

I certainly did. I remember the miracle bowl to this day and everything good and bad after. Been a diehard fan since.

Refugee

8/5/19 1:24pm

Died? A bit melodramatic. Was it a setback? Absolutely. If memory

FanofBYU

8/5/19 8:30am

Do we have a pulse or are we dead? Choose one. 🙄

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:33am

RE: BYU athletics died under Holmoe. The cause of death was Utah to the PAC 12

tony

8/5/19 2:31pm

Give it a rest. Dude was a genius when we were winning...

canofpicante

8/4/19 11:03pm

It’s been almost a DECADE since then. Wake. The. Yewt. Up.

8/4/19 11:17pm

"He didn't change. What did then?" Everything changed since then. Right after

rainorsnow

8/5/19 12:03am

You think staying Indy was Holmoe’s decision?! 😂🤪🙄

canofpicante

8/5/19 8:21am

And you think BYU would be winning like BSU if it were in the MWC. Have you not

rainorsnow

8/5/19 9:16am

It’s insane that all those things are facts. They are reality. And yet so many

8/6/19 1:37am

RE: Absolute implosion of BYU sports the last few yrs under Holmoe is

8/4/19 11:17pm

RE: Absolute implosion of BYU sports the last few yrs under Holmoe is

Prickly Heat

8/5/19 7:16am

He was the AD that finally got rid of the Cattermole's and got a real coach for

ManicBlue

8/5/19 9:06am

We are talking about Gymnastics? Not sure many care!

dodgersjazzcougs

8/5/19 9:17am

I never thought much of it, but that guy was pretty odd.

8/5/19 9:19am

Um, he had been AD for at least 10 years by the time the Cattermoles left...

Oranje

8/5/19 11:18am

Also the longest stretch without a national championship in any sport since

8/5/19 9:19am

?? Compared to who? And for what sports?

Jasbo

8/5/19 3:54pm

How about Men's Volleyball Nat'l Championships in 1999, 2001, 2004?

Jasbo

8/5/19 3:55pm

15 years since last national championship. That's the longest drought in decades

8/5/19 4:56pm

I'd like to defend Holmoe and counter you but your facts are solid ):

stealth

8/5/19 10:00am

Holmoe has been a positive influence. Heres why

baldcoug74

8/5/19 10:19am

Oh the the olympic sports argument. Truth is they are down from where they were.

Oranje

8/5/19 10:35am

Yep

8/5/19 11:01am

RE: Oh the the olympic sports argument. Truth is they are down from where they

Fansince67

8/5/19 11:33am

With the exception of women’s rugby we did that and better before Holmoe.

Oranje

8/5/19 5:05pm

”Club sport” ❓

MichCoug

8/7/19 5:24pm

You are being selective ... both volleyball teams have been to final 4/

8/7/19 5:58pm

Wow. Maybe a little hyperbole here?!!

Jasbo

8/5/19 3:52pm

Is this a joke?? "Absolute Implosion?" Thank you for the good laugh on a Monday!

8/5/19 5:28pm

My Xbox 360 broke

8/5/19 5:39pm

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